PK after time

[Pegleg]

Wales V England U20 tonight

Ref allows "option as per:

21.4 PENALTY AND FREE KICK OPTIONS AND REQUIREMENTS
(a) Scrum alternative. A team awarded a penalty or free kick may choose a scrum instead. They throw in the ball.
(b) Lineout alternative. A team awarded a penalty or a free kick at a lineout may choose a further lineout into which they throw in. This is in addition to the scrum option.

after 80 is up. Was he right or does the folowing preclude it?

5.7 OTHER TIME REGULATIONS

(e) If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes
dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick at goal. If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed. If time expires and a mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue.

 

[Camquin]

As ever the law book is a wonderful thing and is in need of careful edit

A team has for as long as I can remember been able to take a penalty as a kick or a scrum.
I do not believe that there has ever been any question of not allowing a team to take a scrum when awarded a penalty after time is up.

However, in the past to take the lineout you had to first kick to touch -and if time was up the line out would be no-side and hence the end of the match.

But now there is a line out option direct from the pnalty it is not no side, so can be taken.

 

[crossref]

I think this is exactly the intention of the Law, to allow a team to take a PK as another lineout, after time has expired

 

[Camquin]

Joy of editting

We understand "given the options" to refer to what happens after a side for example getting the kick off wrong.
However, Law 13.7 if the kick-off does not go 10m "the opposing team has two choices"

Options is only used for how to take a penalty.
And oddly for the ways teams can offend at line outs and free kicks.

Looking at Flemming and Anderson Laws of Rugby Explained - the old 1991 law 10 used the word "options" in this case.

Camquin

 

[Pegleg]

Great I feel that is what the law intended. Now to the second question.

Lineout develops into a maul.


A: BEFORE the line out is over (maul has not left the line of touch) Team a collapses the maul.

= PK with Scrum or Line out option.


B: AFTER the line out is over (maul has left the line of touch) Team a collapses the maul.

= PK with Scrum option. OR is it, PK with Scrum or Line out option?


19.9 BEGINNING AND ENDING A LINEOUT

(b) Lineout ends. The lineout ends when the ball or a player carrying it leaves the lineout.
This includes the following:::

• When a ruck or maul develops in a lineout, and all the feet of all the players in the ruck or maul move beyond the line of touch, the lineout ends.

 

[Camquin]

So a line out turns into a maul and moves off the line of touch, you drop your arm and let the backs come up - then someone infringes.

As I read it, the non-offending side now no longer have a line out option.
The only options are kick or scrum.

Camquin

 

[winchesterref]

PK with scrum option only if it has left the line out

 

[Pegleg]

Good then I'm not so daft.

 

[Phil E]

Good then I'm not so daft.

No one said that!!!

 

[Pegleg]

No one said that!!!

I chose to infer it.