[In-goal] player on the ground presents the ball over his own try line

[RobLev]

I would say I wasn't certain that the ball had touched the ground and gave the ball carrier benefit of doubt.

In which case your eyesight, not intention, is the issue. If however you were certain of the original grounding, but uncertain of the player's intention, would you give the try out wide or under the posts? I discount the possibility that you would nevertheless profess uncertainty as to the grounding.

 

[The Fat]

Something similar to this happened tonight at the end of the Rebels v Hurricanes match. Rebels defending their goal-line and in trying to make an exit play, the ball is passed to a player in goal who is caught but manages to roll himself into the FoP. The result is a ruck like thing right on the goal line with the ball just in the FoP.

The Rebels player then presents the ball back over his own goal-line, and lets go of it. The ball is still within bodies (and would still be in the ruck if it was in the FoP), however, Ardie Savea knows the law, pounces on the ball and grounds it.

The Hoff awards the try.

A couple of points here based on the replays I have seen which are not clear (hopefully someone has all angles video???)
1. Ardie Savea, go to the top of the class for knowing the law
2. It is not clear if
(a) the defender has hands on the ball when it touches the ground in-goal
(b) the defender lets go of the ball before it touches the ground to avoid a 5m attacking scrum
(c) Savea pounces when the ball is over the goal line but still off the ground
3. Was Savea onside at the ruck before the ball crosses the goal line? Looks like he wasn't.
4. Regardless of Savea probably being offside, rebels prop #3 cleans out gold #4 illegally by entering from the side (right alongside The Hoff)

 

[Ian_Cook]

A couple of points here based on the replays I have seen which are not clear (hopefully someone has all angles video???)
1. Ardie Savea, go to the top of the class for knowing the law

Agree. A real heads up play from him

2. It is not clear if
(a) the defender has hands on the ball when it touches the ground in-goal
(b) the defender lets go of the ball before it touches the ground to avoid a 5m attacking scrum
(c) Savea pounces when the ball is over the goal line but still off the ground

3. Was Savea onside at the ruck before the ball crosses the goal line? Looks like he wasn't.

Some questions, and ones like this pop up frequently in relation to stuff that happens close to the goal-line

If the tackle was in goal (where there can't be a tackle) and the ball is "muscled" forward over the goal line so that it only just in the FoP....

1. Does it become a tackle?

2. If (a) player(s) on their feet in the FoP is/are not matched by an opponent on their feet in the in-goal, is it a ruck?

This is why I referred to is as a "ruck like thing". I'm not convinced it was a ruck in the Law sense of the term.

4. Regardless of Savea probably being offside, rebels prop #3 cleans out gold #4 illegally by entering from the side (right alongside The Hoff)

Agree, so if what you say above about Savea being offside is correct, then PK anyway.

Here's the action for anyone who hasn't seen it (if the link doesn't take you directly to it, it starts at 1:40 in the YT time)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j83xph-a248#t=100

 

[OB..]

I would say I wasn't certain that the ball had touched the ground and gave the ball carrier benefit of doubt.

You would duck the point about intention? So presumably you agree it cannot be justified?

 

[didds]

I would say I wasn't certain that the ball had touched the ground and gave the ball carrier benefit of doubt.

... so in your example instead of scampering around under the posts, as he was getting to his feet a defender bundled him into T-i-G, you would award the 22 drop out?

didds

 

[crossref]

... so in your example instead of scampering around under the posts, as he was getting to his feet a defender bundled him into T-i-G, you would award the 22 drop out?

didds

when he first hits the ground you make a decision : if a try was scored you blow the whistle, if it wasn't you don't.
if you don't blow the whistle then it's play on ... what happens happens.