Playing the 9

Browner

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Stuartg said:
How did he get away with that? He's offside clearly in front of the back foot. Essentially he's cheating.
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Perhaps the officials missed it, or maybe they accept such gamesmanship/distractions ( calling out / talking / sledging / pushing each other at each scrum etc ) from 9's ( or any other player /pro ) for that matter ?!?!
 
ChrisR

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Rucks formed in General Play without first having a Law 14 situation or a Law 15 tackle would be as rare as rocking-horse shit.


Except in the scenario of a disintegrated ruck where the ball is exposed and opposing players engage over it rather than attempting to play the ball. Now, if your view is that the ruck never ended then there isn't a question.

However, my thought is that the ruck is over and if opponents engaged over the ball they have formed a new ruck.

If they compete for the ball then that's OK too. If one picks up the ball and the other engages him then we have a tackle/maul in the making.

I don't see a law violation here.
 
Ian_Cook

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Marauder said:
Rucks formed in General Play without first having a Law 14 situation or a Law 15 tackle would be as rare as rocking-horse shit.


Except in the scenario of a disintegrated ruck where the ball is exposed and opposing players engage over it rather than attempting to play the ball. Now, if your view is that the ruck never ended then there isn't a question.

However, my thought is that the ruck is over and if opponents engaged over the ball they have formed a new ruck.

If they compete for the ball then that's OK too. If one picks up the ball and the other engages him then we have a tackle/maul in the making.

I don't see a law violation here.
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And we're back to the situation where McCaw was pinged against Wales. Both he and his opponent thought the ruck was over, they both went for the ball, McCaw was quickest so he got pinged because WB thought it was still a ruck. I reckon if Aaron Smith had been the one going for the ball, WB would have allowed it, and if the Welsh #4 grabbed him the way he grabbed McCaw, then the Welsh #4 would have been pinged for playing the 9!
 
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O

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Marauder said:
Rucks formed in General Play without first having a Law 14 situation or a Law 15 tackle would be as rare as rocking-horse shit.


Except in the scenario of a disintegrated ruck where the ball is exposed and opposing players engage over it rather than attempting to play the ball. Now, if your view is that the ruck never ended then there isn't a question.
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Clarification 3 of 2007 says that if all the opponents leave a ruck, the ruck is not over: the criteria for successful or unsuccesful end to a ruck have not been met, so the ruck continues. This rationale would apply if, for example, no players were left on their feet. Failing to meet the requirements for forming a ruck is not a criterion for endng a ruck.
 
ChrisR

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Then the question is: With ball exposed and playable can any player dive in to get it? (assuming that they did so meeting all legal criteria)
 
Simon Thomas

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Browner said:
Perhaps the officials missed it, or maybe they accept such gamesmanship/distractions ( calling out / talking / sledging / pushing each other at each scrum etc ) from 9's ( or any other player /pro ) for that matter ?!?!
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9's have been doing similar when allowed to get away with it for as long as I can remember.

I know one 9 who was often in trouble some years ago for his "jolly japes" :biggrin:
 
FightOrFlight

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[LAWS]A ruck is a phase of play where one or more players from each team, who are on their feet, in physical contact, close around the ball on the ground. Open play has ended.
Players are rucking when they are in a ruck and using their feet to try to win or keep possession of the ball, without being guilty of foul play.


16.1 (a)Where can a ruck take place. A ruck can take place only in the field of play.


(b)

How can a ruck form. Players are on their feet. At least one player must be in physical contact with an opponent. The ball must be on the ground. If the ball is off the ground for any reason, the ruck is not formed. [/LAWS]





The law book seems to state that a ruck consists of the ball on the ground and 2 players bound over it competing on their feet. Now to put it in perspective how often do your everyday rucks correspond to 2 guys on their feet bound together over the ball? It is usually a case of one guy smashing another away from the ball as soon as he looks at it crooked at a tackle.

If the ball is there on the ground and 2 guys come together over it one is entitled to drive the other away and this is a ruck, conducted much the same as a ruck at a tackle would be.

For me this suggests in my scenario a defender is entitled to drive the 9 away if the ruck is over or not formed but not pull him into a ruck if one has formed and he is attempting to play the ball
 
Browner

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Simon Thomas said:
9's have been doing similar when allowed to get away with it for as long as I can remember.

I know one 9 who was often in trouble some years ago for his "jolly japes" :biggrin:
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So, do they get away with such things via referee blind eyeing, ?


,
 
ChrisR

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So, are you implying that all 9s are cheaters?
 
Browner

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What's the appropriate signal ?
 
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T

The Fat


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Browner said:
Another "playing the 9" example

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RtLz6NV8wsM
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So many things wrong in that clip.

Questions:
1. NO calls "Maul now". If Quins player had done the same as Wasps 18, who thinks NO would have thrown the arm out for advantage? What about White 16's actions?

2. When the maul goes to ground, there are no players left on their feet. Wasps player then places the ball on the ground and Wasps player, who appears to be in the SH position is over the ball. Quins player then comes through and makes contact with the Wasps player. NO then gives the "Take a step" signal with his arms to the Quins team mates but not penalised the Quins player who is in contact with (some would say playing) the white SH, so NO must be now saying we have a ruck. If that is the case, what about the actions of Wasps #20?

3. NO then allows other white players to join the ruck, still motioning for Quins players not involved to stay onside, before a new SH clears the ball and play continues so what looks to you (Browner) as a case of quins "playing the 9", may in fact require a bit more discussion of the different phases of play involved here and the actions of several other players, specifically 18, 16 & 20 white???

Please discuss
 
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Just saw your post in the other thread Browner. Was wondering if you were fishing in this thread when I made my previous post:wink:
 
Browner

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The Fat said:
Just saw your post in the other thread Browner. Was wondering if you were fishing in this thread when I made my previous post:wink:
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Yep TF , you're right I've shown my in ability to cut & paste the correct clip into this thread .....doh me !! Damn my mobile phone, where the characters are too small for my fingers , I shouldn't have tried .....lol

This was the clip for this thread ..... Apols ..... http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6MgsZx-Ovg
 
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