Positioning

[Wolrabs]

Hi,

I ref U11's (where my son plays) and I seem to have a problem with positioning at the rucks and mauls. I get drawn into 'ball' watching and miss kids going offside behind me.

What can I do to stop this behaviour or 'retrain' myself not to do it.

Any practical suggestions welcome.

Cheers

Sean

 

[ckuxmann]

You get in realize what team is going to win the ball then move over about 6 m on the strong side, being almost flat with the back of the team that is winning the ruck.

 

[Toby Warren]

Very simple. Arrive at the breakdown as quick as possible. Find the ball, get out to take a wider view.

(if only it was that easy!)

Ps welcome to rugby refs and the world of reffing.

 

[haze222]

It's exactly what I was doing until a few weeks back!

If the rucks are messy, and you find yourself trying to find the ball in the middle of it - blow up for unplayable.

But if the ball is visible and obtainable - drop back a few metres on the attacking side. Then you can check for defensive offsides, wrong entry to ruck etc, and vitally, get ready for where the ball is going next.

I found being too close up, when the ball came out, I was 3 secs behind automatically chasing up on it. And I can't sprint wonderfully so I need all the headstart I can get!!!

 

[Casey Bee]

It's exactly what I was doing until a few weeks back!

If the rucks are messy, and you find yourself trying to find the ball in the middle of it - blow up for unplayable.

But if the ball is visible and obtainable - drop back a few metres on the attacking side. Then you can check for defensive offsides, wrong entry to ruck etc, and vitally, get ready for where the ball is going next.

I found being too close up, when the ball came out, I was 3 secs behind automatically chasing up on it. And I can't sprint wonderfully so I need all the headstart I can get!!!

Not convinced by being on the attacking side. If you can see the ball then maybe better reversing into defensive line [without getting in their way]. You can then look sideways along the line for off sides and the play should be heading in your direction??

 

[Adam]

Not convinced by being on the attacking side. If you can see the ball then maybe better reversing into defensive line [without getting in their way]. You can then look sideways along the line for off sides and the play should be heading in your direction??

Nah, the better teams will use you as their 'decoy runner'. When you move out of the way as the defence rush up, you create the gap, which they run through.

You also find that players are often running at you which can be awkward to move out of the way, sometimes resulting in you turning your back to the play..

You are almost always better standing on the attacking side and follow the play rather than being ahead of it.

Standing in the defensive line invariably shows that you don't have the fitness to keep up with the play.

 

[Casey Bee]

Nah, the better teams will use you as their 'decoy runner'. When you move out of the way as the defence rush up, you create the gap, which they run through.

You also find that players are often running at you which can be awkward to move out of the way, sometimes resulting in you turning your back to the play..

You are almost always better standing on the attacking side and follow the play rather than being ahead of it.

Standing in the defensive line invariably shows that you don't have the fitness to keep up with the play.

Seems to be what I see on TV a lot, so that's where I get that from. I would love to know good positioning and a lot of people say watch TV matches... while bearing in mind that those guys have ARs.

 

[ddjamo]

getting in and out is a positioning requirement that is much higher than what is expected of a beginner referee. best way to get used to things is from the saddle/chariot of the side in possession. once you have mastered that position you can work on getting in and out.

the saddle is not the best - but it's better than your back facing the lines and staring at the ball.

 

[OB..]

getting in and out is a positioning requirement that is much higher than what is expected of a beginner referee. best way to get used to things is from the saddle/chariot of the side in possession. once you have mastered that position you can work on getting in and out.

the saddle is not the best - but it's better than your back facing the lines and staring at the ball.

I expect beginners to practice getting in and out again. I do not want them to get static in the chariot position.

 

[ddjamo]

so static staring at the ball is better?

 

[Dickie E]

Nah, the better teams will use you as their 'decoy runner'. When you move out of the way as the defence rush up, you create the gap, which they run through.

You also find that players are often running at you which can be awkward to move out of the way, sometimes resulting in you turning your back to the play..

You are almost always better standing on the attacking side and follow the play rather than being ahead of it.

Standing in the defensive line invariably shows that you don't have the fitness to keep up with the play.

Decoy runners? Fitness? Must be good 10 year olds. :wow:

For this age group, stand on the blind side of the breakdown and look over the muckle to check offside lines.

 

[ddjamo]

I've debated this many times with many coaches. like bryan says - it's like sex - any position as long as you get the job done. the chariot is easier to get into and your shoulders are facing the goal line. in and out and the newer referees don't detect offside at all. it's my humble opinion that the chariot is not too bad for the lower end of things and keeps the ref out of the way.

 

[Casey Bee]

I expect beginners to practice getting in and out again. I do not want them to get static in the chariot position.

OK, assuming this will be of benefit to Wolrab's request from OP, and it certainly would to me, and no doubt other beginners.

What do you mean getting in and out again? And what is chariot and any other position name that gets mentioned? What is benefit in standing in attacking line / defensive line etc. I guess when learning you need to stage development but what is the 'best' position to aim towards?? I'm sure I see a lot of top refs move into the defensive line but AJCarter says no. Don't mind being wrong but someone, please explain all this stuff!!

 

[Dickie E]

"Get in & get out"

Get in close while managing the tackle to ensure tackler releases & tackled player plays ball.

Once you're OK with that start moving away from the tackle to widen your view to observe arriving players stay on feet, enter legally, etc..

Once ruck is set, go further away (a couple of paces) and square up to goal-line to observe offside lines.

Try to avoid scanning for offside lines as SH knocks ball on at base of ruck. :nono:

 

[Dickie E]

"Chariot position". Sometimes called "straddle position".

Immediately behind SH of team winning ball. Favoured by Paul Honiss.

 

[menace]

try reading this...

http://www.irb.com/mm/document/training/0/rugbyrefinpractice_426.pdf

it is an old version - a gentlemen from my association has updated it but I can't find a pdf version of it - I have a ringbound version in my kit. So be wary of any ELV updates not being in this version - but the gist of the positioning should remain relevant.

 

[ddjamo]

the point I'm getting at is it's all good and well and where a new ref "should" be...the fact is that many cannot get there and/or if they do - they not only don't call the 1st infringement - they don't prevent a single thing. at least the chariot with your chin up, shoulders square can do a little of both.

 

[SimonSmith]

the point I'm getting at is it's all good and well and where a new ref "should" be...the fact is that many cannot get there and/or if they do - they not only don't call the 1st infringement - they don't prevent a single thing. at least the chariot with your chin up, shoulders square can do a little of both.

debatable.

It isn't a binary thing: either this OR that. I would argue that if the referee is getting in and then out, then their ability to manage the situation is better.

Agree with what OB says

 

[ddjamo]

I totally agree...but that is a HUGE...HUGE "if". I have been involved with 10 new referees over 18 months and they can get in just fine...none can get "out". moved some to the chariot and their game picked up. just my observations.

 

[crossref]

I think you always have to be on the attacking side watching the defenders offside line

Ihave been watching pro refs a lot, looking at where they stand.

Some (obviosuily wanting to be further forward than the chariot position) stand on the attackers backfoot line, on the open side about 2-3m to the side fo the ruck.

I have tried that but I find player then run into me :-(

But professional refs seem to manage it they must be do something subtle..