[Junior] Potential Head Injury

[OB..]

The player must see a doctor within 72 hours

That would be nice. I usually have to wait a week for a doctor's appointment.

 

[Pegleg]

I think he was replying to ChuckieB

Perhaps he should have quoted ChuckieB and not me then.

 

[Pegleg]

That would be nice. I usually have to wait a week for a doctor's appointment.

Really? THe Welsh NHS must be better despite Cameron's claims then.

 

[The Fat]

thefat - that sounds an excellent protocol... one question thopugh... what checks and balances are in place down in the weeds to make sure that



ie - how does anybody with rugby KNOW that the doctoire has been consulted, has acted up[on the info etc?

We do have similar GRTP in RFUland and my club take this seriously. But in recent history we have had a junior concussion whereby the parents didn't think it was worth going to hospital, and when eventually seen (because he was ill at school the next day and the school sent him home!) the doctor complained that his time was being wasted and he couldn't be bothered to write a note (to fulfill our criteria for GRTP etc). which of course further exacerbated the parent's view of "why are medically unqualified coaches insisting on this".

ie part of the problem being that large parts of this protocol are handled by people with their own agendas.

We can all agree that "it isn't right" but nonetheless it exists.

I can see scenarios whereby a willing participant in the protocols cannot fulfill them too - eg concussed senior player is about to go away on business for several days etc.

didds

The form that must go with the player to the doctor is a 3 page document. The final page is where the doctor signs to approve return to full contact training/playing. Because the player has initially been recorded on RugbyLink (effectively temporarily deregistered), he cannot return to play until that last page is submitted to the Admin Officer. Any team that plays the player without clearance is subject to strict competition rules and disciplinary action.
It's a fairly robust system but I believe I have identified a loop-hole which I am currently discussing with the ARU.

 

[SimonSmith]

Is this documented anywhere I'd love to propose this to USA Rugby

 

[The Fat]

Is this documented anywhere I'd love to propose this to USA Rugby

I'll PM you the relevant links tonight

 

[SimonSmith]

Got 'em - thanks

 

[Fatboy_Ginge]

"The Trainer" isn't presumably a qualified doctor. In this area your direct observation of her immediately on the field trumps his 25m overview, by which time she could have shaken the signs off; that doesn't mean she wasn't concussed.

Every referee society would back you 100% if you said she shouldn't play. And I think there are referees on here who have the anecdotes to back that play

Indeed. I had one this season where a heavy tackle resulted in a 15 year old being away with the fairies. Coach comes on and I run through standard questions (3 correct of 5).
"Sorry coach but he's off and not coming back on as I suspect a concussion"
"Come on sir, 10 minutes and he'll be fine"
The player then pipes up... "I think it is concussion as I got concussed on Thursday playing for the school. I felt allright yesterday so the coach said I should be OK to play today."
1 player removed and a report to the home clubs M&J Chairman and Child Safety Officer and the local union as well.

 

[didds]

The player then pipes up... "I think it is concussion as I got concussed on Thursday playing for the school. I felt allright yesterday so the coach said I should be OK to play today.".

Hope the bloody school got reported too. They need to be involved in the entire GRTP process. Including INITIATING it.


We've had ... issues... around this area .

FFS.

didds

 

[The Fat]

Sadly, some coaches and clubs just don't get it.

 

[didds]

Indeed TF.

didds

 

[Fatboy_Ginge]

Hope the bloody school got reported too. They need to be involved in the entire GRTP process. Including INITIATING it.


We've had ... issues... around this area .

FFS.

didds

Don't... some years ago when I was coaching junior rugby, a couple of players from our team went to a local private school, who were always really shitty about their pupils playing for us. One week, just before a county cup QF the head coach had a phone call from the school advising us that one player had sustained a concussion in training so would DEFINITELY not be available that weekend. a quick phone call to the parents resulted in mystification from them as little Johnny was fine and they'd certainly not been told of any injury during training.

Saturday morning arrived and at 7am I had a phone call from another ref asking if I'd step in for him as a family emergency meant he wasn't able to take the match... at this school... Not a problem. I turned up and did the brief, checked studs and everything else as per normal...

Both teams took to the pitch and as the match was about to kick off I stopped, called the coach on and instructed him to remove his fly half as he'd been reported suffering a concussion on the Wednesday and there was no way he was playing.

Who told you that blustered the coach... You did when you rang me and the head coach to say he wasn't available for the club tomorrow. You said concussion so he's not allowed to play.

Hoist on your own petard...

 

[Pita]

Blue cards will be raising awareness on this. Many comps say only at premier level can a SUSPECTED concussion have a field side test and be allowed back on. In all other cases player is done for the game. If at the time a concussion is NOT diagnosed, they can play in next game, not that same one.

With respect to diagnosis. A near blind, left handed, orangutan can make the call. There are good simple questions that if failed tick a box and diagnosis is made. It is disingenuous to assume only a doctor can do this. Diagnosis is BEST done at pitch side. It aids the lack of symptoms at time of review confusing the diagnosis later. (If you wish to challenge me on this, please consider that I know what I'm talking about; I am an emergency medicine doctor and work closely with several local hospitals about had injury management.)

 

[oldun]

U-19 Girls Match, competition rules cap score at 40 point lead, after this normal substitution laws are suspended.

After (another) try is scored, Blue 7, is squatted down, both hands holding her head, eyes are bloodshot and glassy. As AR I alert referee and get the trainer on to check her out, she leaves the field, is in the medical tent for 25 minutes, and is cleared by the medical professionals, no head injury according to them.

Since we are now in a rolling subs situation, would you allow B7 back on the pitch?

My son and daughter were both concussed while playing at University (and I was assistant coach when my son was concussed), and have been concussed myself during playing days. I take a pretty hard line on head injuries. My son even lobbied to go back on, saying he was fine...and then couldn't remember arguing with me about it 30 minutes later.

No matter what the age, no matter what the level of play, no matter what the stakes (International, club championship, hated rival), it's not worth it. I've told captains/coaches - "That's it, his/her day is done. Make sure someone looks after them for at least a couple of hours."

 

[UpandUnder]

Blue cards will be raising awareness on this. Many comps say only at premier level can a SUSPECTED concussion have a field side test and be allowed back on. In all other cases player is done for the game. If at the time a concussion is NOT diagnosed, they can play in next game, not that same one.

With respect to diagnosis. A near blind, left handed, orangutan can make the call. There are good simple questions that if failed tick a box and diagnosis is made. It is disingenuous to assume only a doctor can do this. Diagnosis is BEST done at pitch side. It aids the lack of symptoms at time of review confusing the diagnosis later. (If you wish to challenge me on this, please consider that I know what I'm talking about; I am an emergency medicine doctor and work closely with several local hospitals about had injury management.)

We had this clarified at our association, only an ARU appointed doctor can conduct a HIA and allow a player back onto he field. From NRC down these do not exist at matches so if there is a suspicion of head injury the player goes off for the remainder of the game. The referee has the final say in this mater and can overrule a medical professional if they are concerned for the players welfare.