prop's feet

[Dickie E]

I reffed an U18 game yesterday and one of the LH props is an elite schoolboy player.

At each scrum, on the "bind" call, he would grasp his opponent's jumper in the correct way, then use his left arm to hold his weight while he shifted his feet backwards. He could then hold that pose indefinitely.

Once the "set" call was made he was in an excellent position to let his arm relax, simply fall forward and put on a good hit and be in a strong & low position. There was no hit & follow and didn't cause any scrum instability or collapse.

I've never seen this before and wonder if it is legal.

Thoughts?

 

[Paule23]

Doesn't sound like there is anything illegal going on, apart from your reference to a 'hit' which shouldn't happen.

if he's bound correctly, shoulders in line with hips, set square etc I can't see any problem with this.

anyone else with other thoughts?

 

[ChrisR]

Good technique as it allows the prop to crouch lower and, if both props use it, it doesn't require the hooker to be the brake. As long as the front row are 'ear-to-ear' at crouch then the hit is minimal.

 

[didds]

Id love to see a video ... but i doubt one is available.

where are his knees in the bind section? under his torso? under his hips? behind his hips?

didds

 

[Dickie E]

Id love to see a video ... but i doubt one is available.

where are his knees in the bind section? under his torso? under his hips? behind his hips?

didds

you can try it at home. Stand facing a wall in a crouch position and put your hand on it. Now, take your weight on your hand and move your feet backwards such that if the wall disappeared you'd fall flat on your face.

 

[didds]

gotcha dicky. so the LHP is in effect pushing on the shirt of the tHP in order to remain in the "bind" position not yet set.

didds

 

[Dickie E]

gotcha dicky. so the LHP is in effect pushing on the shirt of the tHP in order to remain in the "bind" position not yet set.

didds

yes. It is very effective (I think but I'm no prop) but just wonder on the legality. And if it is legal, why doesn't everyone do it?

 

[didds]

TBH I am amazed the oppo prop is bot "dealing" with it in someway - because it must be putting pressure on his own "bind" position.

Maybe they both do it and it nullifies itself?!

didds

 

[VM75]

I reffed an U18 game yesterday and one of the LH props is an elite schoolboy player.

At each scrum, on the "bind" call, he would grasp his opponent's jumper in the correct way, then use his left arm to hold his weight while he shifted his feet backwards. He could then hold that pose indefinitely.

Once the "set" call was made he was in an excellent position to let his arm relax, simply fall forward and put on a good hit and be in a strong & low position. There was no hit & follow and didn't cause any scrum instability or collapse.

I've never seen this before and wonder if it is legal.

Thoughts?

So he falls forward - does he do this with or without maintaining a bind?

If it's the latter then there clearly is potential for the engagement to force a collapse. My initial thought is that I don't like it, but i guess i'd have to see it first.

GLT's are leaving stability decisions to the 9, & if that happens without maintaining a bind then it sounds like a recipe for neck injuries to happen

 

[Dickie E]

So he falls forward - does he do this with or without maintaining a bind?

Bind is always maintained.

 

[VM75]

Bind is always maintained.

Then sounds fine to me, as the bind provides the stability.

 

[Jarrod Burton]

Had School Boys Vic vs Tas U18 on Sunday. One of the Tasmanian props was doing this movement at every scrum. His hips were below shoulders (as the oppo prop couldn't bend that far). On the feed with the shove it was a 50/50 call whether he would get a reasonable drive on or push the other prop up. Had 6 completed scrums with the two of them on, 3 "worked" (as in the ball came out, they looked messy), 3 ended in a PK, a few resets due to slips in the mud and the last one I blew up early as one of locks went for a crotch bind. We had a couple of changes on both sides and the scrums settled right down when they both went off (rolling subs). I did notice that the Tasmanian prop's legs were so far back a couple of times that it was his hooker and the oppo prop preventing him from face planting.

I don't see an issue with someone doing what you suggested, provided both props have the strength to maintain safety.

 

[didds]

I blew up early as one of locks went for a crotch bind

purely out of interest, crotch bind not permitted at U18 in Aus?

didds

 

[Dickie E]

purely out of interest, crotch bind not permitted at U18 in Aus?

didds

that's a simple question with a complex answer.

Generally, all junior rugby (ie U18 and down) requires no crotch bind. Why? No idea - maybe to stop a lock getting trapped in a collapse.

However, there are a series of trials being conducted where different age groups are allowed to use crotch bind if they wish.

So in my parish (Victoria), for U16 club rugby (ie not schools), crotch binding is allowed. When those kids then move onto U18, crotch binding is then banned again.

Go figure.

 

[Jarrod Burton]

purely out of interest, crotch bind not permitted at U18 in Aus?

didds

Crotch binding not allowed in Tasmanian under age rugby, was told that the rep match was to refereed under the local by-laws. The amount of shorts that the lock had in the crotch bind that I saw would have been very uncomfortable for the prop.

 

[Dickie E]

Crotch binding not allowed in Tasmanian under age rugby, was told that the rep match was to refereed under the local by-laws. The amount of shorts that the lock had in the crotch bind that I saw would have been very uncomfortable for the prop.

I hear you can get a good handfull of a Tasmania's shorts without any discomfort

 

[andyscott]

The tighthead must be shit, as I would be moving my body, so the loosehead slips.

 

[Pinky]

I reffed an U18 game yesterday and one of the LH props is an elite schoolboy player.

At each scrum, on the "bind" call, he would grasp his opponent's jumper in the correct way, then use his left arm to hold his weight while he shifted his feet backwards. He could then hold that pose indefinitely.

Once the "set" call was made he was in an excellent position to let his arm relax, simply fall forward and put on a good hit and be in a strong & low position. There was no hit & follow and didn't cause any scrum instability or collapse.

I've never seen this before and wonder if it is legal.

Thoughts?

Dickie, I thought the current approach was to require front rows to hold their own weight before the set, so that would suggest that pushing on your opponent to stay up when you move your feet back is not OK.

 

[Dickie E]

Dickie, I thought the current approach was to require front rows to hold their own weight before the set, so that would suggest that pushing on your opponent to stay up when you move your feet back is not OK.

OK & thanks. Is that documented?

 

[Jarrod Burton]

I hear you can get a good handfull of a Tasmania's shorts without any discomfort

I'll pay that one. Just wait till I bump into you again.