Quick penalty tap kick - when are defenders penalise for not retiring 10?

[Rich]

Just interested on some help here;

Reds are awarded a penalty, they tap kick quickly and blues have very little chance to retire. Red player then runs forward from the penalty mark but is stopped/tackled by a blue player - let's say 5M from the original penalty mark.

Is the blue player infringing as he did not retreat 10 or is it simply that red took the penalty kick too quickly for blue to retire and thus blue can legally take on red even though he has not retired 10?

How do you manage this and at what stage do you decide to move the mark forward 10 (kick again to red) for blue not retiring?

 

[didds]

The only players that can tackle red are those that were behind a line 10m from the PK/FK mark. Players closer than that must retire behind that line before being involved in the game UNLESS... an onside player makes a legal tackle and a new phase of play eg ruck occurs.

didds

 

[crossref]

[LAWS]21.7 What the opposing team must do at a penalty kick
(a) Must run from the mark. The opposing team must immediately run towards their own goal line until they are at least 10 metres away from the mark for the penalty kick, or until they have reached their goal line if that is nearer the mark.12
(b) Must keep running. Even if the penalty kick is taken and the kicker’s team is playing the ball, opposing players must keep running until they have retired the necessary distance. They must not take part in the game until they have done so.
(c) Kick taken quickly. If the penalty kick is taken so quickly that opponents have no opportunity to retire, they will not be penalised for this. However, they must continue to retire as described in 21.7(b) above or until a team-mate who was 10 metres from the mark has run in front of them, before they take part in the game[/LAWS]

what you have to watch for is the #9 deliberately running into an opponent who is retiring, in order to milk an extra 10m from you (especially watch this when an extra 10m would bring it into kickable range)

 

[FightOrFlight]

Just interested on some help here;

Reds are awarded a penalty, they tap kick quickly and blues have very little chance to retire. Red player then runs forward from the penalty mark but is stopped/tackled by a blue player - let's say 5M from the original penalty mark.

Is the blue player infringing as he did not retreat 10 or is it simply that red took the penalty kick too quickly for blue to retire and thus blue can legally take on red even though he has not retired 10?

How do you manage this and at what stage do you decide to move the mark forward 10 (kick again to red) for blue not retiring?

If red go quick and blue have not retired the 10 the blue players cannot attempt to stop the red player until he has gone 10 or he meets a player who is or was 10 at the tap. Often enough if a team go quick the defenders will be inside 10 but they avoid interference with the ball carrier.

There is also a situation where a player taps quick and runs into the opposition deliberately to try and get the extra 10m from the referee. This is usually characterised by say the 9 taking a quick tap...running into an opposition player on purpose and stopping to appeal for the extra 10m. In this case the laws say you play on as they are deliberately running into the defenders before they have a chance to retreat specifically so they can get you to move the mark up 10.

Sanctions. If they retreat a bit but not the full 10 you play PK advantage with the new mark 10m up in line with the first one. If it is totally blatant and in the red zone lets say, then you may consider a YC for the offender but that is a judgement call.

Be aware of the mythology surrounding this issue too and the famous "they cannot take the second one quickly sir". A quick PK is one taken behind or close enough to the mark for the referee to be happy to let it go. If the defenders are not 10 and the referee goes forward 10m with the mark they attacking team must take the next PK from that mark. If the 9 runs up to you on the new mark and taps the ball on your mark he can play on. Doubtless to a few howls of "they cannot take the second one quick sir" but there is no problem with the tap.

 

[Blackberry]

Hi Didds,
Just a heads up that it doesn't need the onside defender to make a tackle or any kind of contact, he can put his retiring team mates onside just by running past them.

So... if a defender is stuck right by the ball as a quick penalty is taken, he might have a surprising advantage..... bear with, bear with.

It is only incumbent on him to run towards his own line, so if he happily runs alongside the ball carrying attacker as one of his onside team mates runs forward to put him onside, he can pounce on the ball carrier as soon as he is level with his "onside putting" team mate. If you visualise it, he can stay considerably closer than his retiring "not so near the ball" tea mates.

 

[OB..]

Hi Didds,
Just a heads up that it doesn't need the onside defender to make a tackle or any kind of contact, he can put his retiring team mates onside just by running past them.

So... if a defender is stuck right by the ball as a quick penalty is taken, he might have a surprising advantage..... bear with, bear with.

It is only incumbent on him to run towards his own line, so if he happily runs alongside the ball carrying attacker as one of his onside team mates runs forward to put him onside, he can pounce on the ball carrier as soon as he is level with his "onside putting" team mate. If you visualise it, he can stay considerably closer than his retiring "not so near the ball" tea mates.

If his running line constrains the ball carrier, he is interfering with play.

 

[Blackberry]

If his running line constrains the ball carrier, he is interfering with play.

Er, yes. And if he punches the runners lights out, he's be guilty of foul play. And if he offered the runner a Class A drug he'd be liable to arrest for....
Let's just assume he runs back with the ball carrier.

 

[RobLev]

Er, yes. And if he punches the runners lights out, he's be guilty of foul play. And if he offered the runner a Class A drug he'd be liable to arrest for....
Let's just assume he runs back with the ball carrier.

Which almost by definition constrains the BC's actions - the BC can't pass the ball through the space occupied by the retiring player (who in your scenario is close enough to tackle him as soon as he's put onside), nor can a team mate support him in that space.

He's also "lazy-running" (and taking part in play) if he's keeping station on the BC, rather than sprinting for 10m.

 

[Blackberry]

Hi RobLev,
Lazy runner??? Isn't the ball carrier running full pelt?? The defender would have to be matching that speed! Blocking space?? Just run immediately behind the BC. You can shadow the fast moving ball carrier without meeting either of these criteria, try to visualise it, see if you can see what I am getting at.

 

[Stuartg]

Just interested on some help here;

Reds are awarded a penalty, they tap kick quickly and blues have very little chance to retire. Red player then runs forward from the penalty mark but is stopped/tackled by a blue player - let's say 5M from the original penalty mark.

Is the blue player infringing as he did not retreat 10 or is it simply that red took the penalty kick too quickly for blue to retire and thus blue can legally take on red even though he has not retired 10?

How do you manage this and at what stage do you decide to move the mark forward 10 (kick again to red) for blue not retiring?

Firstly manage it. Talk to the defenders and let them know when the penalty taker is fair game.

Yesterday I had an U16 game in which red took a quick tap and immediately was tackled. Talked to the offending team's capt to tell him it couldn't happen again without me having to consider my options. It did happen again so out came the YC, and again so the YC made another appearance. If it had been a L9 game I'd have YCed the first offence.

 

[winchesterref]

Blackberry - I had your exact scenario today. Blue 9 tapped and went on his own. Red ruck participant unbound and ran in behind the 9 following him 10, then executed a legal tackle and created a turnover situation. Blue team unhappy, as far as I was concerned there was nothing wrong, indeed Blue was probably barely aware he was being run down!

 

[RobLev]

Hi RobLev,
Lazy runner??? Isn't the ball carrier running full pelt?? The defender would have to be matching that speed!

Sorry about the late reply.

If the defender is slower than the BC, the issue doesn't arise. If he's actually faster, he should be gaining on/overtaking, not shadowing, the BC - if he's exactly the same speed, he'll have been beaten off the mark by the BC and not be able to make up the distance lost to get into position immediately behind the BC... All of which suggests that in most cases of keeping close enough to the BC to be able to make the tackle as you suggest the defender has been lazy-running.

Blocking space?? Just run immediately behind the BC. You can shadow the fast moving ball carrier without meeting either of these criteria, try to visualise it, see if you can see what I am getting at.

I can see what you mean, just can't see that it will be very often that it can legally be pulled off.