[Law] Quiz 10 (of 10) : A kick in time

crossref


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The final Quiz question .. hope it's been fun while it lasted .

As always: give yourself the time you would take to make a decision on the pitch and give your answers below, just the letters will do .

No Law spoilers. I'll come back later with the Laws and we can discuss.

Here we go ...

Time has expired when Green are awarded a PK.

Green 10 lines up for an ambitious kick for the corner, about 60m away ...

Scenario 1
The kick bounces in the field of play and goes into touch without touching a player
A Lineout Green
B End of the half

Scenario 2
The kick goes directly into Touch in Goal
F Options to Blue: Scrum or 22m DO
G End of the half

Scenario 3
Green kicks . Blue #11 positions himself with one foot in touch and one foot in the field of play and catches the ball, which has not crossed the plane of touch
P Lineout to Green
Q End of the half

Scenario 4
The referee is distracted trying to silence the bleeps on his new Spintso and, while the ref is not looking Green 10 sneaks an extra 10m. When the referee finally presses the correct button and looks up, Green #10 quickly takes the kick (ie from in front of the mark) the kick goes directly into touch. It looks like he got away with it, until the the AR comes in on the comms to tell the referee what happened
S Take the kick again
T End of the half

Scenario 5
Green kicks, lightening strikes twice and the ball glances off the overhead spider cam (it happened again!) and continues on into touch
X Lineout Green
Y End of the half
 
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Rich_NL

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I'm going to say B, G, Q, S and Y. Almost all end of half, except for 4 which is Green's intentional misconduct.

I'm not sure how I'd not notice Green 10 kicking 10m in front of the mark, though...
 

crossref


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Well make it 5m or something... Enough so that we don't get the answer 'its not material" ,

In other words he sneaks a material distance
 

Jz558


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I think all of those scenarios end the half.

1 - Not direct to touch
2 - No requirement to restart the game
3 - Player with a foot in touch I don't think is misconduct it is just playing the laws as written. Either way ball not direct to touch
4 - Incorrectly taken penalty (I know this has been debated but frankly I wouldn't be inclined to help out a player who was blatantly cheating)
5 - Scrum therefore end of the game.
 

menace


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A - ball still makes touch. Green entitled to LO. EDIT: ooh...not direct forgot that bit...so end half. B
G - scrum over. End half
P - ball is in touch. Blue put it there. But still made touch so LO..(Edit: I would deem this, probably incorrectly, still direct to touch so would play LO)
S - tap off mark. Take it again. PK has not been taken. Half still alive.
Y - pk taken. Scrum from unusual stoppage. End half.
 
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Dickie E


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1 b
2 g
3 q
4 s
5 y
 

CrouchTPEngage


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b
g
p
t
y

The only debate is on (3) L PLayer with foot in touch. I think its fair to take that as a kick direct to touch. It didnt hit the ground.
 

Rich_NL

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... but it did touch an opposition player before it crossed the plane of touch.
 

beckett50


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I'm going with:
A
G
P
S
X
 

crossref


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So here's my answer.

The key bit of Law here is, of course, 5.7.c

[LAWS]5.7 A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless:
a) A scrum, lineout or restart kick following a try or touchdown, awarded before time expired, has not been completed and the ball has not returned to open play. This includes when the scrum, lineout or restart kick is taken incorrectly.
b) The referee awards a free-kick or penalty.
c A penalty is kicked directly to touch without the ball first being tapped and without the ball touching another player.[/LAWS]

So far, so good - but then we need a definition of directly. Here, alas, the Law Book is lacking as despite it being used in scores of places the book never properly defines directly.

The closest we get is
[LAWS]Directly caught: A ball caught without first touching anyone else or the ground.[/LAWS]

But I think we all agree what it means, so I am going to make an assertion (which of course is open to anyone to challenge if they like. Marc?)

Definition
DIRECTLY : without touching the ground or another player

So armed with that, we can proceed

Scenario 1 The kick bounces
Answer - B End of half (the ball didn't go directly to touch, it bounced)

Scenario 2 Touch in Goal
Answer - G End of the half (going into TiG is different from going into Touch, so 5.7.c doesn't apply

Scenario 3 Blue #11 catches with foot in touch

This is certainly the toughest one, and I cannot say I feel sure what World Rugby would say, if asked this scenario.
I think they would say that the ball didn't touch a player on the way to touch - the moment it touched Blue it was in touch.
So P Lineout to Green

But certainly I can see the other side of the argument : after all it did, indisputably touch another player.
This one might be worth an email to laws@rfu.com -- anyone want to put their hand up to take that on?

Scenario 4 PK taken from wrong place.

Answer S Take the kick . A kick taken from the wrong place is a kick taken incorrectly, and the game didn't restart, so restart it. We have covered this

Scenario 5 spider cam
Y End of the half (ball is dead when it hit's the spider cam, it didn't reach touch)
We have been through this one as well. Some you would give the lineout, I know

So my careful answer
B - G - P (I reckon) - S - Y


That was the last quiz people - - I can't keep it up for ever.

Hope everyone got something from the series, hope everyone learned something from the series. For me certainly both, genuine thanks to everyone who joined in.
 
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collybs


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So far, so good - but then we need a definition of directly. Here, alas, the Law Book is lacking as despite it being used in scores of places the book never properly defines directly.
there is - under definitions
Kicked directly into touch: The ball is kicked into touch without first landing on the playing area or touching a player or the referee.
 

Camquin

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In the old days a player catching the ball before it crossed that plane, but with one foot in touch meant the ball had gone directly into touch. Players used to do this to ensure no gain in ground.

Then the touch laws were changed and the catcher was deemmed to have taken the ball into touch, and they would give away both the gain in ground and the thow in. Several players were caught out in the first week.

Given that I would say it is not direct and the half ends.
 

crossref


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In either case the moment it touches the player it is in touch
 

Arabcheif

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I think that definition is for when a kick from open play or restart after a score goes into touch. If a PK was kicked into touch "indirectly" would you award the trow in the Line-out to the non kicking team? I'd suggest that the important factor here is that directly means without hitting another player or being tapped and kicked.
 
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crossref


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If a PK bounces into touch the kicking team retain the throw in to the lineout, but if time has expired the half is over, there is no line out

It's an inconsistency of approach in the Law
 

Camquin

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We are discussing whether there is time for the line out - not who gets the throw.

Law 18.8.c is actually clear that the kicking team get the throw after penalty, even if the ball bounces or the opposition catch it while in touch. In fact apparently they get ithe throw even if the ball bounces off the referee.

Given the law has different cases for a kick direct to touch and a kick caught by an opponent in touch - I think it is clear only one permits the line out after time.
 

Arabcheif

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Yeah I know that the kicking team would have the throw in the line out. My suggestion is I can't see anything on the WR website specifying that the ball is "in play" if it hits the ground prior to going out of play, therefore if it subsequently made dead from "open play" if it goes out.
I can see no mention of this specific example on the WR website.
Is there a law reference for that CR?
 

Arabcheif

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I'm with Camquin - I would think the bounce is irrelevant.

I agree with the rest though lol.
 

crossref


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I am not sure I understand the question , but isn't it 5.7.c above
 
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