[Law] Quiz #6 - short lineouts

crossref


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A two part question today.

As before : give yourself as much time as you would on field to make the decision, and give your answer
A, B or C
P, Q or R

No Law spoilers, I'll come back later and give what I think is the correct decision and then we can have a Law discussion

Part One

Red throw in at the lineout, and Red #1 in the line steps well over the 5m line, catches the ball and hares off down the pitch

A - Offer options to blue (Lineout or scrum)
B - FK to Blue
C - the referee has discretion to award A or B, depending on context.

Part Two

Red throw in at the lineout, and Blue #1 in the line steps well over the 5m line, catches the ball and hares off down the pitch

P - Offer options to Red (Lineout or scrum)
Q - FK to Red
R - the referee has discretion to award P or Q, depending on context
 
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Flish


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A and Q, although not massively confident so looking forward to the education!
 

Decorily

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Well I thought it was scrum for scenario 1 and FK for 2.
So nearest option as given is A and Q
 

menace


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crossref


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So, here’s the answer (IMO)

I think this one is pretty clear in the Law Book –

Q1 – Red throw, Red come inside 5m

[LAWS]18.23.b The ball must Reach the five-metre line before it hits the ground or is played.
Sanction: Option of lineout or scrum[/LAWS]

Q2 – Red throw, Blue come inside the 5m

[LAWS]18.25 Opposition players must not block the throw.
Sanction: Free-kick.[/LAWS]

So the answer is
A Options to Blue
Q FK to Red
 

Taff


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... So the answer is
A Options to Blue
Q FK to Red
In your opinion, it's A & Q.

As Dickie pointed out ages ago though, I can't believe that WR intended there to be different sanctions for the exact same offence, depending on which team committed the offence.

I reckon if either No 1 steps across the 5m line and grabs the ball before it reaches the 5m line, it should be a FK on the 15m line.

If the thrower was to balls it up, and fail to throw it 5m then there is a LO / Scrum option.

That's just my opinion; and we all know what they say about opinions.
 
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crossref


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So, here’s the answer (IMO)

I think this one is pretty clear

So yes, in my opinion

But really the Law could hardly be clearer
What you are saying f is that you are ignoring the Law because it doesn't seem right to you
 
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collybs


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Part Two

Red throw in at the lineout, and Blue #1 in the line steps well over the 5m line, catches the ball and hares off down the pitch

P - Offer options to Red (Lineout or scrum)
Q - FK to Red
R - the referee has discretion to award P or Q, depending on context

Q2 – Red throw, Blue come inside the 5m

18.25 Opposition players must not block the throw.
Sanction: Free-kick.

Red has thrown in at the lineout and it has been caught by blue inside the five metre line; therefore in my opinion blue has not blocked the throw as when the throw was taken he was back 5 metres..
 
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Rich_NL

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I reckon if either No 1 steps across the 5m line and grabs the ball before it reaches the 5m line, it should be a FK on the 15m line.

Could you explain why you feel it's a FK and not options?
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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In your opinion, it's A & Q.

As Dickie pointed out ages ago though, I can't believe that WR intended there to be different sanctions for the exact same offence, depending on which team committed the offence.

I reckon if either No 1 steps across the 5m line and grabs the ball before it reaches the 5m line, it should be a FK on the 15m line.

If the thrower was to balls it up, and fail to throw it 5m then there is a LO / Scrum option.

That's just my opinion; and we all know what they say about opinions.

I do this.

Yes I'm picking and choosing but it's equitable and as such an easier sell if they both do it as throwing team and opponent.

Similarly at really weedy levels I may offer options to both if either front man steps over the 5m to catch etc.
 

crossref


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Red has thrown in at the lineout and it has been caught by blue inside the five metre line; therefore in my opinion blue has not blocked the throw as when the throw was taken he was back 5 metres..

Have a look at the diagram in the Law Book
 

Jz558


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I’m not sure I agree that the law could hardly be clearer. I don’t see anything in the law book that suggests that 18.23.b only applies to the throwing side or that 18.25 applies at all in this case. IMO 18.23.b clearly states that for a ball failing to reach the 5 metre line the sanction is options. As Collybs suggests, it is reasonable to conclude that the throw hasn’t been blocked, it was thrown but hasn’t been permitted to travel the specified distance. Therefore, whichever team has prevented it must suffer the sanction. It could hardly be clearer could it?
 

collybs


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Have a look at the diagram in the Law Book
Which shows the player standing in front of the five metre line with his arm raised, before the ball has left the throwers hand. That is not what you described in the original question.
 

crossref


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Excellent, we seem to have full blooded support for almost every opton !
 

crossref


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Which shows the player standing in front of the five metre line with his arm raised, before the ball has left the throwers hand. That is not what you described in the original question.

You are correct

Interesting angle .. do you think that the FK is intended to penalise standing in the channel before the throw is taken ?

I have to say that has never occurred to me .
But I don't think I have ever really seen it happen
 
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