Ref # 441

[RussRef]

Here's the text: "Blue has the ball and a maul forms. Blue #5, the ball-carrier, goes to ground and makes the ball immediately available. Blue drives forward, but the ball is held up and not playable. What do you do?"

The correct answer is: C, Scrum to Blue, citing 17.5 & 16 Definition & 16.7a: A maul ends successfully when the ball is on the ground, or is on or over the goal-line. A ruck is a phase of play where one or more players from each team, who are on their feet, in physical contact, close around the ball on the ground. A ruck ends unsuccessfully when the ball becomes unplayable and a scrum is ordered. The team that was moving forward immediately before the ball became unplayable in the ruck throws-in the ball. Once the ball-carrier releases the ball after going to ground in the maul, the maul becomes a ruck. Blue was moving forward when the ball became unplayable so they get the resulting scrum.

This seems strangely worded: the ball is "immediately available" when Blue #5 goes to ground, but it's "not playable" after Blue drives forward? Hard to imagine what this looks like in real life.

In real life, if a ball isn't playable following formation of a maul, wouldn't you award the scrum to the opposing side?

 

[OB..]

My understanding of the second bullet point in 17.5 (The ball is on the ground) is that it refers to the situation where the ball alone is allowed to go to the ground, and does not cover a player going to ground with the ball - the latter is covered by 17.6 (g). That is what I was taught some years ago by my then RDO.

Law 17.6 (g) says that it is an unsuccessful end to a maul (not to a ruck) if the ball carrier goes to ground and the ball is not immediately available. The point has been argued before that "immediately available" is not the same as being played, but if you take the line that the maul becomes a ruck if it subsequently becomes unavailable, I think you are introducing an unnecessary subtlety. What constitutes being "immediately available"? Is it not more sensible to take that to mean the ball carrier's team must actually play the ball, thus proving that it was available?

 

[Taff]

... This seems strangely worded: the ball is "immediately available" when Blue #5 goes to ground, but it's "not playable" after Blue drives forward? Hard to imagine what this looks like in real life.

But it's a law question not a real life example. Ie it is designed to test whether you know when a maul ends successfully; can a maul turn into a ruck; who gets the put in if a ruck ends unsuccessfully etc etc.

 

[Browner]

I think the use of the words "but the ball is held up" was poorly chosen by the questioner. It would be easier if they'd said ....despite blue driving forward the ball didn't become playable ............ so, for my 10p ........ Carrier has gone to ground as permitted in 17.2, Maul has ended as per 17.5 point 2 , it's now a Ruck so, 16.7[a] is correct [LAWS] The team that was moving forward immediately before the ball became unplayable in the ruck throws in the ball.[/LAWS] in this case Blue.

 

[crossref]

we discussed scenario (but not the specific question) not long ago

my view is that the premise of the question is wrong

"Blue has the ball and a maul forms. Blue #5, the ball-carrier, goes to ground and makes the ball immediately available. Blue drives forward, but the ball is held up and not playable. What do you do?"

I think too late: the referee is wrong already: the ball went to ground ... but blue didn't play it.. . Maul ended there unsuccessfully . Scrum red.

 

[Browner]

"Blue has the ball and a maul forms. Blue #5, theball-carrier, goes to ground and makesthe ball immediately available [1] . Blue drives forward, but the ball is held upand not playable. What do you do?"
[2] or in other words ‘releasesit’, so that it has a chance of becoming playable [it’s currently on the floor,with players engaged in contact over the top, ie a ruck] <o></o>
This is the key thrust of this question, it relates to whatis happening and the timing of what is happening. Chro nologically - goes to ground- releasesball- ruck over ball- becomes held up / doesn’t emerge - instead becomesunplayable. <o></o>
As written, the Question requires an ‘”unplayable ruck”answer. However I accept that ifwritten differently, the answer might similarly be different.