Ref sued in civil case, concussion death

[Shelflife]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...in-robinson-issue-legal-proceedings-1.2847339

Its clearly a tragic situation, but it could have serious consequences on getting coaches and refs if this case is successful.

Who would want to be a ref if you were wide open to be sued, it could IMO be the end of amateur refs.

 

[OB..]

Since this was Second Impact Syndrome, it might have the salutary effect of persuading people to take concussion seriously.

 

[Flish]

Do we know when the first head impact injury took place? As at the very least if a previous game or incident how would the ref know? The coach however possibly should have known better

 

[Camquin]

I would hope that the unions insurance would ensure the ref was not out of pocket.
That is surely what it is for.

 

[Flish]

Answered my own question, he was treated 3 times for a head injury in that match, not great ��

 

[ChrisR]

In the US our insurance will cover a referee/coach trial expense but I don't believe it would cover an award. Happy to be corrected.

 

[Taff]

I would hope that the unions insurance would ensure the ref was not out of pocket. That is surely what it is for.

Exactly.

In the US our insurance will cover a referee/coach trial expense but I don't believe it would cover an award. Happy to be corrected.

I would be amazed if your insurance didn't cover an award too - especially in the US, given that our American friends threaten to sue at the drop of a hat.

 

[SimonSmith]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...in-robinson-issue-legal-proceedings-1.2847339

Its clearly a tragic situation, but it could have serious consequences on getting coaches and refs if this case is successful.

Who would want to be a ref if you were wide open to be sued, it could IMO be the end of amateur refs.

You are wide open to be sued every time you cross the white line.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Tragic. If I see a head injury they go off don't care how qualified the physiology is.
It's an absolute minefield but my conscience is clear

 

[tim White]

I still do not understand the reluctance of referees to intervene when a player gets a significant knock to the head leading to a stoppage in play. make it clear it is a precaution, it is for the player' benefit, and you will do the same for any other player in any other game. You will get grief as you 'sent off' their best player but the consequences of getting this wrong are writ large above. Why would you not do it?

 

[ChrisR]

I've coached youth for 6 years and I tell parents that they have to be a watchdog for their kids. After a tackle/ruck and the ball moves away the coaches & referee are all watching the play around the ball and no-one is watching the players getting up. If a parent sees his/her kid take a sideways step or look confused then I (the coach) need to know.

At my last youth club we were very fortunate in having two people (a pediatrician and an EMT) who were 'impact assessment' trained. Doing an assessment substitution should be expected.

 

[Phil E]

A terrible tragedy.

The statement said:

During this match, there were numerous opportunities for those in charge to notice that Benjamin had sustained several concussive type head injuries.

But sustaining a concussive type head injury surely means taking a knock to the head. That is not the same as showing signs or symptoms of concussion? It is the latter we are to look out for.

Of course there may be a lot more to it than that which was reported.

 

[crossref]

this incident was a very unusual one - we discussed it here at the time,
Here's a in in depth account of the game
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...schoolboy-ben-robinson-concussion-rugby-union

- his parents (who were present) raise concerns about him at half time, and neither the coach nor referee take heed.
then in second half
- he is knocked out in a hard tackle and is on the floor for 90s before being helped to feet
- four minutes later he is involved in a clash of heads
- the coach does a concussion test and decides he can play on
- video shows him holding his head and displaying classic symptoms
- coach gives him a second concussion test (of some sort) holding up fingers etc and decides he can play on
- referee says (at the inquest) he thought some of the players were being drama queens and prima donnas
- Ben saying 'I am not remembering this' 'I can't rememberr the score'
- mother complains agian
- just before end of the game he suffers another blow and collapses

The lesson of this story does not appear to be that it was a random event out of the blue that could happen to any unlucky ref/coach....

 

[DocY]

this incident was a very unusual one - we discussed it here at the time,
Here's a in in depth account of the game
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...schoolboy-ben-robinson-concussion-rugby-union

- his parents (who were present) raise concerns about him at half time, and neither the coach nor referee take heed.
then in second half
- he is knocked out in a hard tackle and is on the floor for 90s before being helped to feet
- four minutes later he is involved in a clash of heads
- the coach does a concussion test and decides he can play on
- video shows him holding his head and displaying classic symptoms
- coach gives him a second concussion test (of some sort) holding up fingers etc and decides he can play on
- referee says (at the inquest) he thought some of the players were being drama queens and prima donnas
- Ben saying 'I am not remembering this' 'I can't rememberr the score'
- mother complains agian
- just before end of the game he suffers another blow and collapses

The lesson of this story does not appear to be that it was a random event out of the blue that could happen to any unlucky ref/coach....

I'm not a legal expert, but this does sound a bit negligent.

The difficulty (from what I understand) a lot of referees have is that when there's a clash of heads you're literally the only person who wants the player off the pitch and you'll seldom have any support. How many times do you get the coach, or someone involved with the club, saying "can you give it 5 minutes, sir?", "we've got a physio at the next game over, we'll get him to have a look", all while the player is insisting he's fine.
In this situation, though, the ref clearly wasn't the only person who wanted him off and if a player had been possibly knocked out (I'm assuming he wasn't down holding his knee in this case) I struggle to see how anyone could object to the ref ordering him off.

I'd be interested to know if anything happened to the coach - IME that's where the attitude needs to change. We're 'reminded' a few times a season and I'd be interested to know if coaches are too, because I've not met one who was accepting that I'd ordered one of his players off.

 

[Phil E]

this incident was a very unusual one - we discussed it here at the time,
Here's a in in depth account of the game
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...schoolboy-ben-robinson-concussion-rugby-union

- his parents (who were present) raise concerns about him at half time, and neither the coach nor referee take heed.
then in second half
- he is knocked out in a hard tackle and is on the floor for 90s before being helped to feet
- four minutes later he is involved in a clash of heads
- the coach does a concussion test and decides he can play on
- video shows him holding his head and displaying classic symptoms
- coach gives him a second concussion test (of some sort) holding up fingers etc and decides he can play on
- referee says (at the inquest) he thought some of the players were being drama queens and prima donnas
- Ben saying 'I am not remembering this' 'I can't rememberr the score'
- mother complains agian
- just before end of the game he suffers another blow and collapses

The lesson of this story does not appear to be that it was a random event out of the blue that could happen to any unlucky ref/coach....

Agreed. That is a very different story from what was included in the linked article, there are areas of concern in the version you quoted. I hesitate to say anymore on a public forum.

 

[crossref]

The difficulty (from what I understand) a lot of referees have is that when there's a clash of heads you're literally the only person who wants the player off the pitch and you'll seldom have any support. How many times do you get the coach, or someone involved with the club, saying "can you give it 5 minutes, sir?", "we've got a physio at the next game over, we'll get him to have a look", all while the player is insisting he's fine.

I agree that the player himself almost always thinks he is OK!

but otherwise i have to say that isn't my experience.

Perhaps I have been lucky- but it's been only a very few occasions that I have had to insist on someone leaving the pitch, in almost every incident that has happened in my games I have let the situation breath, and the captain/first-aider/physio (or once a team mate) - has reached the right conclusion without me having to intervene, and the player went off. Much better.

Off course I wasn't refereeing ten years ago when it was no doubt different.

When I have had to order a player off, to be honest it's not been hard. I explain the reason (supected concussion) and yes, while I have I had a team think I am being too cautious - but they understand why this is so, and the ramifications of safety and being sued etc, and TBH they don't object as much as when they think I've penalised the wrong player at a tackle!

 

[DocY]

but otherwise i have to say that isn't my experience.

I'm glad to hear it. Perhaps I was being overly critical - the sorts of things I was describing above are (IME) typical for low level adults games (often 2nd XV). Age grade and school coaches are much better.

 

[TheBFG]

without going into any more depth than Crossref has posted above, I can confirm that the report he quotes is correct, however there is more evidence and reading it made me bloody angry.

A very sad incident that should never of happened!

 

[Dan_A]

I'd be interested to know if coaches are too, because I've not met one who was accepting that I'd ordered one of his players off.

At our club ALL mini and junior coaches and first aiders have been briefed on concussion. I'd be very disappointed if anyone objected if a referee asked for a player to be replaced.

 

[SimonSmith]

Here's the occasional difficulty we face as referees. I got a report from one of my refs from his match this weekend.

Female player had to go off groggy after a head knock.
Discovered after the match that she had received a severe concussion two weeks before.

THOSE are the ones that worry me, not the ones in front of my face