[Law] Replacement after penalty kick

[cccref]

Hi everyone,

i was asked a question and got it wrong (i answered no, correct answer was yes)

A team is assigned a penalty kick, can they do a replacement?

Why i said no:

Law 3:

• NUMBERS
  
  
• [...]
• Replacements are made only when the ball is dead and only with the permission of the referee.
• [...]

Law 6:

• The referee will deem the ball to be dead when:
  • The ball is in touch or touch in-goal.
  • The ball is grounded in in-goal.
  • A conversion has been attempted.
  • A try, penalty or dropped goal has been scored.
  • The ball or ball-carrier touches the dead-ball line or anything beyond it.
  • The ball hits anything above the playing area.

I assumed that if there is a PK, ball is not dead.

Why am I wrong?

Thank you

 

[Balones]

Hi everyone,

i was asked a question and got it wrong (i answered no, correct answer was yes)

A team is assigned a penalty kick, can they do a replacement?

Why i said no:

Law 3:

• NUMBERS
  
  
• [...]
• Replacements are made only when the ball is dead and only with the permission of the referee.
• [...]

Law 6:

• The referee will deem the ball to be dead when:
  • The ball is in touch or touch in-goal.
  • The ball is grounded in in-goal.
  • A conversion has been attempted.
  • A try, penalty or dropped goal has been scored.
  • The ball or ball-carrier touches the dead-ball line or anything beyond it.
  • The ball hits anything above the playing area.

I assumed that if there is a PK, ball is not dead.

Why am I wrong?

Thank you

Law clarification 2-2007 is the brief answer. There was a thread sometime ago that I raised to discuss it.

 

[Balones]

Just out of interest, who asked the question in the first place and who provided the original answer for you?

 

[L'irlandais]

It would be handy if you could provide a link to the quiz.
Was it in Italian? As penalties are awarded rather than assigned.

 

[Balones]

We are in a rather messy situation with law book 2017 and 2018 running in tandem and as this forum points out there have been some confusing 'transfers' from one to the other. The Clarification I mentioned is easier to relate to 2017 than 2018.

 

[Balones]

The definitions in 2018 still say that the ball is dead when the referee blows the whistle, which is not quite the same as inside the law book.

 

[Balones]

Perhaps I shouldn't really open this 'old wound' on the forum but the Law 6 that you quote perhaps deals with and clarifies the situation where an advantage cannot be played.:deadhorse:

 

[cccref]

It would be handy if you could provide a link to the quiz.
Was it in Italian? As penalties are awarded rather than assigned.

Quiz is in italian and it was a Google Module i don't access any longer.
Thank you for pointing awarded instead of assigned.

- - - Updated - - -

Just out of interest, who asked the question in the first place and who provided the original answer for you?

my local instructor

 

[cccref]

Perhaps I shouldn't really open this 'old wound' on the forum but the Law 6 that you quote perhaps deals with and clarifies the situation where an advantage cannot be played.:deadhorse:

Law 6.9 seems to be "standing alone".
It just says when the ball is dead.

Where an advantage cannot be played is clarified in 7.3

 

[crossref]

My understanding , and the way I do it is

I award a PK to Blue
1 Red cannot make a replacement
2 Blue can make a replacement
3 if Blue choose to make a replacement then so can Red
4 if Blue choose to kick for goal then either team can make a replacement

 

[Balones]

I see Law 3.6 - Replacements are made only when the ball is dead and only with the permission of the referee. – as meaning in relation to Clarification 2-2007 that the referee has control over the situation. You cannot simply send someone on the pitch without notifying the ref or his permission because the referee will want to make sure that a quick tap penalty is not on the cards. In practice it is generally applied in the following way which gives a degree of control to the non-offending side as well. (In line with crossref.)

At a penalty if the non-offending side wish (by notifying the referee) to return or replace a player then the ball becomes dead and the team can return and replace the player.

In such circumstances because the ball is now dead the offending side may also return or replace a player because the ball is dead for both sides. (This is not overtly said in the 2-2007 clarification.)

A returning suspended player (yellow card) may take a kick at goal but a substitute may not. (As per RFU regulations.)

If the non-offending side want to take a quick penalty then play continues. If a non-offending side do not want to return or replace a player and want to kick for touch then play continues. (Because it is the same as making a quick penalty decision.)

 

[ChrisR]

If the non-offending team successfully kicks for touch then I'm assuming replacements and YC's returns are on at the lineout?

 

[cccref]

My understanding , and the way I do it is

I award a PK to Blue
1 Red cannot make a replacement
2 Blue can make a replacement
3 if Blue choose to make a replacement then so can Red
4 if Blue choose to kick for goal then either team can make a replacement

This is what i was told and i have no problem with that.
I read the clarification:

[FONT=fs_blakeregular]
[/FONT]

Request
1. A penalty kick is awarded to White team. Before the kick is taken, can White team make a substitution? (If so, we assume that the substitute can take the penalty kick.)


2. A penalty kick is awarded to White team. Before the kick is taken can a previously sin-binned White player return; given that the 10 minutes have fully elapsed? (If so, we assume that the returning player may take the penalty kick.)
Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
A substitution can only be made when the ball is dead. A referee must not let a player rejoin the match until the ball is dead. The ball is dead when the ball is out of play. This happens when the ball has gone outside the playing area and remained there, or when the referee has blown the whistle to indicate a stoppage in play, or when a conversion kick has been taken.


In both cases outlined above, the ball is dead, and therefore the answer to each question is in the affirmative.

At this point, shouldn't the book of laws be updated?
There are too many clarifications "left behind" that could be integrated in the book of laws imho

 

[Balones]

If the non-offending team successfully kicks for touch then I'm assuming replacements and YC's returns are on at the lineout?

Correct.