Ruck Formation & Jackling

[Newcoach]

Hi folks,

I recently started coaching my lads U9’s and also helping out with the u10’s. One thing I’ve noticed at the breakdown in u10’s matches is that referees rarely seems to call “ruck” or “ruck formed”.

Obviously this has an impact on the opportunities for a legal turnover to be completed.

Should the ruck be formerly called by the referee, or should it be assumed as having happened and automatically require rucking over before turning the ball over?

If the above doesn’t make sense give me a shout!

Thanks,
Carl

 

[didds]

That's because (WADR to them) they aren't referees. they are coaches - that referee - like you do. They probably haven't received any referee training - and what may be included in whatever the modern equivalent of the "old L1" is will be laws focussed and not game management I doubt. They are also very possibly parents that have been quasi-press ganged into coaching, not because they have decades long personal involvement week in week out in the game of rugby union and a desire to offer their services to their club

It is what it is. Lead from the front - volunteer to ref your side's games, and whilst keeping everything you do player (and child) focussed, bearing in mind the general ethos of in game coaching and explaining rather than "REFFING" , use the obvious calls and signals where appropriate.

And thank you for coaching AND reffing

 

[Decorily]

That's because (WADR to them) they aren't referees. they are coaches - that referee - like you do. They probably haven't received any referee training - and what may be included in whatever the modern equivalent of the "old L1" is will be laws focussed and not game management I doubt. They are also very possibly parents that have been quasi-press ganged into coaching, not because they have decades long personal involvement week in week out in the game of rugby union and a desire to offer their services to their club

It is what it is. Lead from the front - volunteer to ref your side's games, and whilst keeping everything you do player (and child) focussed, bearing in mind the general ethos of in game coaching and explaining rather than "REFFING" , use the obvious calls and signals where appropriate.

And thank you for coaching AND reffing

?

 

[Dickie E]

I don't referee at that age group but as a general rule I will only call "ruck" when I think I need to, ie when by so doing, I may be helping a player to avoid breaking the law. There is no requirement for a referee to call a phase of play but there is often better outcomes if he/she does so.

 

[RemainingInTheGame]

Hi folks,

I recently started coaching my lads U9’s and also helping out with the u10’s. One thing I’ve noticed at the breakdown in u10’s matches is that referees rarely seems to call “ruck” or “ruck formed”.

Obviously this has an impact on the opportunities for a legal turnover to be completed.

Should the ruck be formerly called by the referee, or should it be assumed as having happened and automatically require rucking over before turning the ball over?

If the above doesn’t make sense give me a shout!

Thanks,
Carl

I started my ref journey with U9s ('pathways' here in Aus), as a 'club appointed ref' for my sons team.

I honestly (and literally) didn't know what I was doing!

So I'd just say to be really generous about the refereeing.

 

[didds]

Should the ruck be formerly called by the referee, or should it be assumed as having happened and automatically require rucking over before turning the ball over?

i didnt answer this bit - but others have covered it above pretty much

In summary - there is no compulsion for the referee to do so. its a game management tool. So its up to individual refs as and when they see fit. Though my points above still stand I feel ... its extremely unlikely many 9any/) refs at U9 - in RFUland anyway - have received any refereeing instruction.

Your input as the whistle holder is to facilitate and coach on the pitch as much as "referee" the game - have fun

 

[Newcoach]

Thanks folks- I suppose we were lucky to have RFU referees appointed the other week which is what prompted the questions. Thus far I’ve only ref/coached one match and definitely have a lot to learn!

 

[didds]

Im AMAZED you had society refs APPOINTED to an U9s match!
(thats not a dig ant anyone - just amazement!)

 

[Newcoach]

Im AMAZED you had society refs APPOINTED to an U9s match!
(thats not a dig ant anyone - just amazement!)

It was a fair size tournament of several age groups in fairness- men’s rugby around here is lucky to get refs sometimes

 

[Phil E]

This reminds me of a story about a rugby club that used a council playing field for their matches.
The council received several complaints from residents, whose properties backed onto the pitch, regarding constant and abusive language being shouted during every match.

When the council investigated it transpired that the residents thought the referee was running around the pitch shouting *uck, *uck, *uck

 

[Stu10]

Hi folks,

I recently started coaching my lads U9’s and also helping out with the u10’s. One thing I’ve noticed at the breakdown in u10’s matches is that referees rarely seems to call “ruck” or “ruck formed”.

Obviously this has an impact on the opportunities for a legal turnover to be completed.

Should the ruck be formerly called by the referee, or should it be assumed as having happened and automatically require rucking over before turning the ball over?

If the above doesn’t make sense give me a shout!

Thanks,
Carl

Not sure, but you may be overthinking it for these age groups. Firstly, you can't form a ruck and you can't jackal in u9.

For u10 there is a maximum of 2 players from each side that can be involved in a ruck, including those in the tackle. It is easier to understand from the wording in the tackle section (6.j.):

When the tackle is made and the ball carrier is on the ground, ONE supporting player from each team, who must remain on their feet, may:
i. rip the ball from the ball carrier but must then pass the ball immediately to a team mate; or
ii. pick up the ball and pass away from the contact area; or
iii. if a ruck is not formed, pick up the ball and run; or
iv. join to form a ruck but must do so from their own side (i.e. from the direction of their own goal line) and attempt to drive over the ball, in an attempt to take their immediate opponents away from the ball.

Therefore, when a tackle is made, your first (and only) player on their feet can go for the ball before a supporting player from the other team is over the tackle. Once a player from the other team gets involved and engages your player, get hands out... expect referees at that age to penalise hands on the ball any longer (Law 15.11 from the adult game does not apply here).

At this age the game is designed to support ball retention and not turnovers.

 

[menace]

"Not sure, but you may be overthinking it for these age groups. Firstly, you can't form a ruck and you can't jackal in u9."

WTF???
If that's not occurring, then that's called rugby league?

 

[didds]

"Not sure, but you may be overthinking it for these age groups. Firstly, you can't form a ruck and you can't jackal in u9."

WTF???
If that's not occurring, then that's called rugby league?

Its also called age group regulations.

 

[Phil E]

"Not sure, but you may be overthinking it for these age groups. Firstly, you can't form a ruck and you can't jackal in u9."

WTF???
If that's not occurring, then that's called rugby league?

In England different elements of the game are added at each age group, allowing the players to practise certain aspects without having to worry about other things. It's a building block approach that leads to full rugby.

 

[didds]

In England different elements of the game are added at each age group, allowing the players to practise certain aspects without having to worry about other things. It's a building block approach that leads to full rugby.

Yup. These are eight year olds.
At the risk of patronising eight year olds they can hardly coordinate standing up without falling over. Trying to coach children of this age technical stuff is not only almost impossible but probably a waste of time. Its clear from my experiences of a LONG time ago of trying to coach U9s scrummaging, that they have no idea of body shape or internalising similar. Having watched U9s "maul" - again a LONG time ago - is another example... you ended up with everybody in a standing up huddle and eventually one person extracts the ball and has an uninterrupted run to score.

Such constructs as WE understand them, on the whole, are pointless at this age group.


IMNSHO.

My 2p anyway.

 

[Stu10]

"Not sure, but you may be overthinking it for these age groups. Firstly, you can't form a ruck and you can't jackal in u9."

WTF???
If that's not occurring, then that's called rugby league?

If that's got you fired up, you'll be even more horrified to learn that u8 are not allowed to tackle!

 

[didds]

... and that all fits with a general move towards an ordered five principles of play (attack) - getting the first three in place before worrying about "continuity" for example.

Makes sense to me, having coached from U7 to seniors.

 

[menace]

Yup. These are eight year olds.
At the risk of patronising eight year olds they can hardly coordinate standing up without falling over. Trying to coach children of this age technical stuff is not only almost impossible but probably a waste of time. Its clear from my experiences of a LONG time ago of trying to coach U9s scrummaging, that they have no idea of body shape or internalising similar. Having watched U9s "maul" - again a LONG time ago - is another example... you ended up with everybody in a standing up huddle and eventually one person extracts the ball and has an uninterrupted run to score.

Such constructs as WE understand them, on the whole, are pointless at this age group.


IMNSHO.

My 2p anyway.

Perhaps something in that and why we don't perform so we'll anymore on the international stage.

But I've also coached u8 through to u15s. And yes a staged approach works I also found kids are sponges and absorb things well. Practising those more technical aspects that differentiates our game from others from a younger age when it isn't as fast and collisions less forceful has its advantages. I guess it's finding a happy medium. I guess I was surprised your happy medium is lower than ours. (Well compared to when I coached "pathways" a few years back now).

 

[menace]

If that's got you fired up, you'll be even more horrified to learn that u8 are not allowed to tackle!

I think we introduce tackling at u8s here.

 

[Stu10]

We have tag rugby at u8, then tackling is introduced at u9... After the tackle the team in possession has 3 seconds to play the ball away (or turnover), no interference by the defending team; then at u10 the defending team can compete for the ball at the tackle... Seems like a reasonable progression to me.