ruck in 7s

[Dickie E]

reffed a 7s tournament yesterday.

White player tackled and lays the ball back (with hands on it) to team mate.

2 Blue players contest the ruck and blow the White team mate away such that the White tackled player is left on the ground holding the ball for 1, 2, 3, 4 seconds with no other players around.

I penalised the White player for handling the ball in the ruck.

Correct call?

 

[didds]

was the ball still beneath the feet of the blue players?

was blue trying to retrieve the ball?

I would say you are right, but if blue aren't actually trying to retrieve the ball I could see an argument that holding the ball isn't material at that juncture.

Would you have penalised white if white team had blown away any blue players similarly?

didds

 

[SimonSmith]

Assuming he was killing access to the ball...

Two options: hands, or failure to roll away.

 

[Dickie E]

was the ball still beneath the feet of the blue players?

was blue trying to retrieve the ball?

I should have been clearer. The 2 Blue players and the cleaned-out White player ended up 5 metres closer to White goal line so there was just the tackled White player (and the ball) lying by himself waiting for someone to arrive. After 4 seconds of this with no player from either team arriving, I pinged him.

In hindsight I might have allowed play to continue.

 

[Rich_NL]

Why did he not stand up and take the ball? Technically you're correct, although I guess a call of "use it" might have prompted some action.

 

[didds]

I should have been clearer. The 2 Blue players and the cleaned-out White player ended up 5 metres closer to White goal line so there was just the tackled White player (and the ball) lying by himself waiting for someone to arrive. After 4 seconds of this with no player from either team arriving, I pinged him.

In hindsight I might have allowed play to continue.

seems to me the ruck was over then, and now you have a player on the ground holding the ball, but not actually preventing any play from occurring as nobody was trying to get the ball.

I suppose he could be offside (?) but he is still not at that moment material.

didds

 

[Dickie E]

seems to me the ruck was over then, and now you have a player on the ground holding the ball, but not actually preventing any play from occurring as nobody was trying to get the ball.

I suppose he could be offside (?) but he is still not at that moment material.

didds

but because the ruck past over him he is not entitled (technically) to play the ball til he regains his feet

 

[didds]

true - of course. But - and I'm strongly defending this - nevertheless he wasn't passing it, or holding while he got to his feet. neither was anybody trying to remove it from his contested grasp. So whether he was holding it or not, it wasn't affecting play at that moment. Perhaps allowing play to continue to see what happened subsequently may have been a better move.

I don;t see any real difference between what he qwas doing and what many players (for good reason as Ive explained many times over the years) do when keeping a hand on the ball as the player gone to ground whilst IN the ruck

didds

 

[ChrisR]

This is Law 14 territory - player on the ground with ball. Play on unless he prevents an opponent from access to the ball.

 

[Guyseep]

I penalize this often. The explanation I give is not releasing the ball. The tackled ball carrier has the opportunity to place the ball immediately, then hands away. If they linger for a few extra seconds, they know exactly what they are doing.

 

[didds]

... you do understand that in normal rucks the BC/tackled player (if not jackled etc obvs) usually keeps a hand on the ball to stop some clodhopping second row team mate from accidentally hoofing it straight into the BC/tackled player's face don't you? And that such measures make for a tidier game - akin to scrumhalves digging the ball out of static rucks?

didds

 

[ChuckieB]

In 7's if the ruck is cleaned out, I would fully suspect that the man on the ground should be releasing and getting up to reclaim possession.

No dawdling. He should be up and off gain!

 

[ChrisR]

I penalize this often. The explanation I give is not releasing the ball. The tackled ball carrier has the opportunity to place the ball immediately, then hands away. If they linger for a few extra seconds, they know exactly what they are doing.

So, let's say tackled player places and releases the ball and the OP scenario occurs with the rucking players driven totally out of the picture. The tackled player jumps to his feet (Ian Cook is refereeing) and picks up the ball.

Trick question: Does he have to be goal-side of the ball?

 

[_antipodean_]

Why did he not stand up and take the ball? Technically you're correct, although I guess a call of "use it" might have prompted some action.

Because the player on the ground has to release the ball immediately.

 

[didds]

In 7's if the ruck is cleaned out, I would fully suspect that the man on the ground should be releasing and getting up to reclaim possession.

No dawdling. He should be up and off gain!

I'd completely agree - but is he now offside anyway?

didds

 

[crossref]

So, let's say tackled player places and releases the ball and the OP scenario occurs with the rucking players driven totally out of the picture. The tackled player jumps to his feet (Ian Cook is refereeing) and picks up the ball.

Trick question: Does he have to be goal-side of the ball?

- Not because of the ruck, because the ruck was over
- before there was a ruck, there was a tackle, and he's the ball carrier, so he does need to get to his feet before playing the ball. But the ball carrier doesn't have to come through a gate... so the answer to your question is no.