Scary stuff

[Davet]

The US of A has a great deal that's good about it - but some elements scare the crap out of me; as much as, or frankly - based on the relative power fo the states concerned - more than, things happening in Iran etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html

 

[Phil E]

Let's face it. Americans have never been very good at History.

 

[stuart3826]

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!!!

 

[barker14610]

The NY Times reporting on anything that happens in Texas is entertaining. The Times is very left leaning and has lost credibility in the last decade with several scandals. Most things Texan are the opposite of what the Times would like. Take what you read with a grain of salt. As with everything, try and find the original document and read it. It is often different that what is reported.

 

[dave_clark]

the mrs and i going to be in America (visiting a mate in St Louis, wherever that is) for a couple of weeks later this year. i'm eagerly awaiting finding out whether the non coastal parts of the country are like they are made out to be in the press over here...

 

[Phil E]

the mrs and i going to be in America (visiting a mate in St Louis, wherever that is) for a couple of weeks later this year. i'm eagerly awaiting finding out whether the non coastal parts of the country are like they are made out to be in the press over here...

Apparently St Louis is like this:

View attachment 1184

 

[barker14610]

St Louis is not far from me. Only a couple of hundred miles west. Right on the Mississippi river. It will be brutally hot. St Louis has a great baseball atmosphere. Try and see a game. They also have very good barbecue. PM details to me. Maybe I will arrange a visit with some of my staff while you are here.

 

[The umpire]

St Louis is not far from me. Only a couple of hundred miles west.

It's all relative, isn't it. Over here that would be "St. Louis is on the other side of the country, it's at least two hundred miles away!"

 

[DrSTU]

It's all relative, isn't it. Over here that would be "St. Louis is on the other side of the country, it's at least two hundred miles away!"

You soon get used to it though

2-3 hrs in a car is nothing now, even though that would get me to London from Leeds. Get me from SD to SB here

 

[Rit Hinners]

In the modern world "History" has become very subjective and a tool of the "State". Surely the government in Great Britan has not missed the opportunity to advocate their own agendas in the schools.

 

[barker14610]

That is funny, Stu. I remember you being amazed that you had to FLY for 4 hours to get to me from San Diego. Most British people I know who have come here are amazed by the vast open spaces. Hundred of miles of nothing that is pretty clear when you are flying.

 

[Donal1988]

Try living in Ireland where its a 4 hour journey to get from North coast to South coast and a 2 1/2 hour journey from West to East coast.

Anything else seems so far away. A friend of mine recently moved to Cork from Limerick and was worried she wont see her boyfriend as it is a long distance. Its about 60 miles but for a small little place like Ireland that can seem a big stretch to some.

 

[Dickie E]

22 million people in 3 million square miles here for a density of 7.3 people per square mile.

 

[DrSTU]

22 million people in 3 million square miles here for a density of 7.3 people per square mile.

I thought Aussies were much denser than that:biggrin:

 

[Davet]

In the modern world "History" has become very subjective and a tool of the "State". Surely the government in Great Britan has not missed the opportunity to advocate their own agendas in the schools.

But that's part of what's scary - Governments deciding what should and should not be taught on religo-political grounds.

And no - the Governement over here could not determine the detail of what was to be taught in that way - they may determine the general syllabus but if they tried to pull some of the stunts the Texans seem to be trying then the teachers would simply not play ball.

But the really scary thing is the fundamentalist religious attitude that seems to dominate certain quarters of American life, is the world to be faced with a choice between American Christian Fundamentalism and Militant Islam?

What would be the chances of USA having a self-declared atheist as a vice-president?

 

[Davet]

22 million people in 3 million square miles here for a density of 7.3 people per square mile.

Dickie - how much of that 3 million square miles is uninhabitable? Pretty much the whole of the interior of Aus is impossible to live in - in terms of modern life. Whats the area of the fertile and inhabitable coastal fringe?

 

[Dixie]

Surely the government in Great Britan has not missed the opportunity to advocate their own agendas in the schools.

You may have noticed from our recent election that we have trouble identifying and communicating an agenda - let alone advocating or implementing one. In very broad terms, I'd expect any such agenda to emphasise multiculturalism, respect for other beliefs and nations, and the general vilification of anything Britain has done in bygone times.

Rit, while the Government may require that the history of the two world wars must be taught, there are competing exam boards that focus on differing elements of those wars. As far as I know, if one of those exam boards chose to focus on the German or Japanese experience rather than the British one, I doubt it could be prevented from doing so.

In any event, we don't teach history well. It seems that the majority of schoolchildren believe that the battle of Trafalgar was a land battle against Napoleon's army.

 

[OB..]

According to Sellar and Yeatman, all English schoolchildren know two dates: one is 1066 and the other one isn't.

 

[Davet]

UK National Curriculum provides guidance about what History teaching should cover, in terms of themes.

http://curriculum.qcda.gov.uk/key-s...3/history/programme-of-study/index.aspx?tab=4

It really doesn't get to the sort of detail that it appears from the NYT article that Boards of Education do in USA - for example that the Verona Papers should be taught in relation to McCarthyism, or that the founding Fathers stricures on separation of church and state should not be taught. etc.

You can't just teach the bits of history you like, and whilst the UK National Curriculum could be imprived it doesn't - and I think couldn't - be used to skew history. eg If you teach Slavery - then it requires you to teach it from both sides, the economic causes of it in terms of trade, and resistance and abolition.

And whilst history and archaeology are often used to promote national myths, the whole point of education should be to inform people sufficiently well that they understand how factually wrong those attempts almost always are.

 

[Rit Hinners]

Well, I'm glad Britan doesn't have the issues with education being used as a political tool. I wish it wasn't true here.

Being a Southerner, one of my pet peeves is the fallacy that the American Civil War was fought primarily over the slavery issue and the fact that most of the slaves that were brough here arrived aboard ships out of ports in New England seems to have become absent.