Scotland v France -standing up in the scrum

[Stephen Elliott]

OK, still not clear after watching on iplayer. 66 minutes in, why did Chris reset the scrum twice for standing up in the front row and not offer a PK, and then (sorry subsequent question) why did he turn over the scrum to Scotland.

 

[Browner]

Clip?

 

[Stephen Elliott]

now you are asking for something I can't do. I just BBC Iplay and run to the 66th Minute (unless someone else can help?)

 

[Account Deleted]

Sorry, why would he "offer" a penalty kick?

 

[Stephen Elliott]

England scrum going forward, front rows stand up. reset scrum and then same. 3rd scrum wheels and then ends in knock on... I would have thought Wales had stood up deliberately in either of the first 2 scrums, OR, England driving up to gain the advantage. Isn't either of those a PK?

 

[Stephen Elliott]

... Isn't either of those a PK?

s/b isn't either of those first 2 a PK (choose the side to call it on)

 

[Browner]

Hi Stephen,
What was the offence you think you saw [and give a law reference] , i'd imagine you'll get more replies if you're more specific with your question/point.

 

[OB..]

One of the (many) problems at a scrum is that there can be several marginal offences gong on at the same time, some more marginal than others, some more material. The referee has to decide which is the most significant, if any. Verbal descriptions will always be a form of shorthand, which may miss facts that others may consider vital. Clips are the best thing to provide if you can.

 

[Stephen Elliott]

At last, found a clip and found a way to "chop it"
[video]http://www.tubechop.com/watch/2323965[/video]

so original question(s) stand: "66 minutes in, why did Chris reset the scrum twice for standing up in the front row and not offer a PK, and then (sorry subsequent question) why did he turn over the scrum to Scotland."
thanks for being patient.

 

[Account Deleted]

I'm not sure how England or Wales have committed any offences in the clip. (See post 5)

 

[Account Deleted]

I 'm also, still, unclear why you think the ref would / should "offer" a PK.

 

[didds]

I suspect "offer" is just semantics. rather than "skipper - would you like a PK for that"?

I cant; see what else it can possibly mean?

didds

 

[Browner]

At last, found a clip and found a way to "chop it"
[video]http://www.tubechop.com/watch/2323965[/video]

so original question(s) stand: "66 minutes in, why did Chris reset the scrum twice for standing up in the front row and not offer a PK, and then (sorry subsequent question) why did he turn over the scrum to Scotland."
thanks for being patient.

I expected, as did the commentators, a Pk from the 1st scrum in your clip.....or even why not let it continue as...France were going forward and had ball under great control so why stop them?

I can only imagine he saw footing slip (likely on that crap surface) and that's a justified reset.

All in all everyone got bored with the resets, at international level the match has to move on so I care less about who gets a FK but when they can't scrum properly......id be happy to just give it to the side closest to oppositions goal line if a PK isn't appropriate.........purely on the basis that they would rather have scrum possession than FK possession , is........less defenders in a tackling position awaiting them .

 

[Account Deleted]

I suspect "offer" is just semantics. rather than "skipper - would you like a PK for that"?

I cant; see what else it can possibly mean?

didds

Surely you just award the Penalty and the captain decides Kick at goal, Kick for touch, Tap or scrum. We offer / ask if they would like nothing.

 

[Stephen Elliott]

I expected, as did the commentators, a Pk from the 1st scrum in your clip.....or even why not let it continue as...France were going forward and had ball under great control so why stop them?

I can only imagine he saw footing slip (likely on that crap surface) and that's a justified reset.

Thank you, a real answer and appreciated. I really wanted to know so I could learn.
OK so you didn't see any infringement specifically, but to reset the scrums because foot slipping can allow a ref to reset scrums... frustrated as I couldn't see any reason not to give a clearly kickable PK for standing up...
Although it does look like the AR is advising him.