Scrap in midfield

[OB..]

I think the logic goes like this:

• You want to avoid a scrum to keep both sides apart to calm down a bit
• By awarding a PK to the defending side (ie the side in whose half play was) the chances are they're not going to score from it.

Personally I still like the "compulsory" 1 minute water break to take things off the boil. I'll try it one day.

And if many of the players know perfectly well that you are wrong, they also know you are guessing (at best) and your credibility nosedives. If you have not seen a penalty offence (and one may have occurred during the part of the scrap you did see) then you have no sensible option but to restart with a scrum - and a dire warning that you will be watching for foul play.

 

[Taff]

And if many of the players know perfectly well that you are wrong, they also know you are guessing (at best) and your credibility nosedives. If you have not seen a penalty offence (and one may have occurred during the part of the scrap you did see) then you have no sensible option but to restart with a scrum ....

In fairness OB that's what I suggested

... I'm pretty clear in my own mind that I would award a scrum, especially if you couldn't see what had happened at the brawl.

I was trying to clarify to Fat why some were suggesting a PK to the defending side eg

Then if you have to give a PK, give it to the defending side, in that way YOU don't have a direct effect on the score, last thing you want is to give a PK to the "wrong side" they kick 3 pts and win the game:wait:

 

[OB..]

Taff - fair enough, and I was pointing out that the logic is false. Same conclusion I believe?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Depending on the circumstances, I would be inclined to award a FK to the side who had the ball at the place where they had the ball (not where the fight was)

I know this is probably not supported in Law, however, given that Equity trumps Law, and Safety rules out a scrum, this seems to me to be the fairest thing to do.

Awarding a PK would be very unfair if you have picked the wrong team to penalise (guessed incorrectly!) and potentially, that could create resentment and lead to an even bigger flashpoint than the scrum. If you are forced to guess, at least lessen the impact of an incorrect one.

 

[OB..]

Depending on the circumstances, I would be inclined to award a FK to the side who had the ball at the place where they had the ball (not where the fight was)

I know this is probably not supported in Law, however, given that Equity trumps Law, and Safety rules out a scrum, this seems to me to be the fairest thing to do.

IMHO Equity does not entitle you to invent law so blatantly.

While I understand the concerns over setting a scrum, surely enough time to cool down a bit plus a very strong warning about shenanigans in the scrum should suffice. And if it does blow up, you are watching and can issue coloured confetti if you wish.

 

[Account Deleted]

...The ref blew up (he was playing for the U15s at the time, so I assume safety is even more important when kids are involved)

Is the ref allowed to play for one of the sides?:norc:

 

[Account Deleted]

You have to be legal. No see no give! If there is any more nonsense after the whistle then you could possibly PK the idiot who will not listen (observe and assess the situation).

Two fighting? Card both. Restart with scrum as per the laws after strong talking to the captains and "Go and tell your players that it stops NOW!". Use this as a bit of down time to allow the situation to calm down a little.

Any foul play at the scrum, come down on like the proverbial ton of bricks.

 

[The Fat]

As OB stated, you have to stick to the Laws to preserve your credability. Therefore, I can see that the only course of action, in this case, is a scrum restart as argued by OB, Taff & ATTR.
Ian, what explanation are you going to give the captains to support awarding a FK to restart?
The OP doesn't state that the 3 players involved in the stink were forwards. If they were 2 centres and a winger, would you all still say that you need to avoid the scrum and restart with a PK to the defending team? I wouldn't have thought so.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Ian, what explanation are you going to give the captains to support awarding a FK to restart?

My statement really was in relation to those who advocated awarding a PK to one side or the other (ex-Lucy, AJCarter, Lee Lifeson-Peart); in other words, guessing, which I in fact do not agree with.

All I am saying is that if you are going to guess, at least lessen the impact by making it a FK instead.

 

[PaulDG]

All I am saying is that if you are going to guess, at least lessen the impact by making it a FK instead.

That's a tougher thing for us in the Northern Hemisphere to try.

We've not been playing around swapping all and sundry for free kicks like you have so we just don't think that way.

(I can't accept the penalty either. Deal with the discipline and then it's a scrum where play stopped, making an equitable decision about who should have put in (nothing to do with the fight.. was the maul moving, side in possession.., etc.). If it wasn't "safe" to have a scrum then either call the game off or card enough forwards so that it is safe. You can't just "make up" penalties.)

 

[Ian_Cook]

That's a tougher thing for us in the Northern Hemisphere to try.

We've not been playing around swapping all and sundry for free kicks like you have so we just don't think that way.

(I can't accept the penalty either. Deal with the discipline and then it's a scrum where play stopped, making an equitable decision about who should have put in (nothing to do with the fight.. was the maul moving, side in possession.., etc.). If it wasn't "safe" to have a scrum then either call the game off or card enough forwards so that it is safe. You can't just "make up" penalties.)

Personally, my preferred option is to go with Law, and restart with a scrum.

The Law does not prohibit you from stopping the clock and allowing time for tempers to cool off. Good game management demands it. Talk to both captains (it will buy you some time) and be honest!! Tell them that you didn't see who or what started it, but that you will be watching carefully for any flare-ups. Tell them what your ruling is going to be (scrum restart where the play was, team in possession to feed) and that they are to go talk to their teams first and get them to calm down, That will buy you some more time.

By the way, if you DO want to justify a FK, then you can regard the handbags as a waste of time, and ping them under Law 10.2 (b). I believe Law 6.A.4 (a) allows you to do this. :biggrin: