Scrum on halfway

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

A discussion with my son prompted this. #1 son - the one who is not a referee.
Scrum bang on half way. Let's say option from a rubbish restart.
So, for 50/22 purposes is the ball inside both halves or neither or just for the team winning the scrum?

Does that make sense?

It was never an issue before 50/22 kicks.

 

[crossref]

There is some guidance somewhere..it's in both Half's so either team can win the ball and do a 50/22

 

[Balones]

Crossref is correct. Whoever wins the ball has it in their half and a 50/22 is possible. Will try to find the reference. It is written down somewhere. See below.

https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/83/833a8e4b-7db1-466e-90cc-80fa5b4c51d9/Global%20Law%20Trials%20-%20Points%20of%20Clarification.pdf

 

[Dickie E]

Blue player tackled 3 metres in opponents' half. Ruck forms with Blue creating the dreaded caterpillar such that ball emerges in Blue's half. Is the 50/22 on?

 

[ianh5979]

no, blue put the ball into their own half, same as if they passed it back

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I got asked this question last week and didn't know the answer so thanks.
I assume the same applies to a scrum on the 22 Where attacking team puts in from a drop out straight to touch.
If the defending team wins the scrum, (it does happen at my level) they can clear straight to touch.

 

[crossref]

I got asked this question last week and didn't know the answer so thanks.
I assume the same applies to a scrum on the 22 Where attacking team puts in from a drop out straight to touch.
If the defending team wins the scrum, (it does happen at my level) they can clear straight to touch.

this is axctually easier to answer, as the mark for the scrum is on the 22m line - and the 22m line is definitively part of the 22 (definitions)

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

this is axctually easier to answer, as the mark for the scrum is on the 22m line - and the 22m line is definitively part of the 22 (definitions)

Cheers Crossref.
Now just waiting for a crucial TMO review of a Kickers standing foot with their heel just on the 22 so they are technically inside.
Would that be TMO reviewable in a game?

 

[crossref]

Cheers Crossref.
Now just waiting for a crucial TMO review of a Kickers standing foot with their heel just on the 22 so they are technically inside.
Would that be TMO reviewable in a game?

i like the way you are thinking
actually if it's an attacking 22m scrum, then the ball will normally be thrown in squint and clearly always outside the 22, so the moment that the defending hooker manages to get a foot to it and bring it back, you should call 'Taken back' that'll show 'em you are paying attention!

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I asked my son (the referee) and he couldn't find the guidance BUT he said that because the mark is on halfway but the SH can put the ball in under the LHs chest then the putting in side is "always inside" whereas (God forbid) if it gets taken against the head then the oppos have carried it back into their half so the 55/22 isn't on without the usual provisos.

Needless to say he's never had to apply the latter bit

 

[Balones]

I have posted the link to the guidance above.

Here it is again.

https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/83/833a8e4b-7db1-466e-90cc-80fa5b4c51d9/Global%20Law%20Trials%20-%20Points%20of%20Clarification.pdf

 

[jdeagro]

this is axctually easier to answer, as the mark for the scrum is on the 22m line - and the 22m line is definitively part of the 22 (definitions)

What about a similar scenario where the mark for the scrum is just outside the 22m, it's the defending team's put in, but they get driven back into their own 22m. Who brought ball into the 22m, the defending team because it's their put in, or the attacking team who drove the scrum?

 

[ianh5979]

Defending team put it back into 22, unless you saw the attacking teams hooker kick it forward on the feed (which never happens anymore)

 

[jdeagro]

Defending team put it back into 22, unless you saw the attacking teams hooker kick it forward on the feed (which never happens anymore)

Interesting point about the hooker kicking forward.

What if the attacking team won the scrum before the drive, and kept possession of the ball on their side of the scrum as it was driven in?

 

[Stu10]

What about a similar scenario where the mark for the scrum is just outside the 22m, it's the defending team's put in, but they get driven back into their own 22m. Who brought ball into the 22m, the defending team because it's their put in, or the attacking team who drove the scrum?

I imagine life would be easier to work with the position of the mark... I think the players would be happy with that. You can even clarify before the scrum packs down that play is starting outside the 22.

 

[Dickie E]

I imagine life would be easier to work with the position of the mark... I think the players would be happy with that. You can even clarify before the scrum packs down that play is starting outside the 22.

Yeah, I'd agree.
Wondering about this one. Defending lineout just outside 22. Attacking jumper gets a fingertip to ball (ie knock on) and defending SH (standing in 22) catches ball and boots it directly into touch around their 10 metre line.
Advantage over? Pros: he got gain in ground that he wouldn't have got from the knock on scrum. Cons: his kick under some pressure

 

[Stu10]

If he gets a decent distance then play on... Better to play on than stop if reasonable.