sealing with a shirt grab

[Dan Cottrell]

Forgive me bringing up an oldie but I am sure that players are not allowed to grab the shirt of their tackled player on the ground to seal him off from the opposition defence. Apparently this is okay...according to some refs...

 

[OB..]

Forgive me bringing up an oldie but I am sure that players are not allowed to grab the shirt of their tackled player on the ground to seal him off from the opposition defence. Apparently this is okay...according to some refs...

Since you admit that the aim is to prevent an opponent from playing the ball, is that not obstruction under 10.1 (d)?

I don't know that it is specifically spelled out anywhere, but perhaps 15.7 (b) covers it as well:[LAWS]No player may prevent the tackled player from releasing the ball and getting up or moving away from it.[/LAWS]You are preventing the tackled player for getting up or moving away.

You can of course try to form a ruck. The definition of a ruck does not require binding, just physical contact, so if an opponent drives into you over the ball (and tackled player) he forms a ruck and cannot then put his hands on the ball.

 

[Blackberry]

Hi OB, I might be misreading your post re binding, I reckon you have to bind in a ruck

Law 16

(b)

A player joining a ruck must bind on a team-mate or an opponent, using the whole arm. The bind must either precede, or be simultaneous with, contact with any other part of the body of the player joining the ruck.

Sanction: Penalty kick

 

[Taff]

Hi OB, I might be misreading your post re binding, I reckon you have to bind in a ruck

A player joining a ruck must bind on a team-mate or an opponent, using the whole arm. The bind must either precede, or be simultaneous with, contact with any other part of the body of the player joining the ruck.
Sanction: Penalty kick

But OBs man is forming a ruck - not joining a ruck.

 

[Blackberry]

Thanks Taff.

 

[Jarrod Burton]

The way I read Dans post is puts this sequence in my head
Red is the BC and is tackled by Blue;
(assumed) Blue rolls away
Red support arrives and either leans on the BC or grabs a fistfull of shirt and then uses this to support themselves.
Blue players then start to arrive to contest.

My opinion would be that until the time that blue players arrive to contest the ruck the red player is ok (as no Blue player is attempting to play the ball), but then as Blue arrive, Red is not supporting his weight, nor allowing the red player to release & standup/roll etc.

PK the arriving red player for being off his feet - mind you it could be difficult to see unless you were right there.

 

[oldman]

Diacussed this situation with some senior team coach's at my local club yesterday lunch time. This is called 'latching' the ides is to use the tackled player as a barrier between the ball and the opposition. If the opposition start to drive the 'latched' (the one on his feet) player backwards the he pulls the player on the floor with him to keep the barrier there until the push can be stopped and the ball played.
In my opinion an act outside the law.
Comments from other coaches who frequent the site welcolme.

 

[Dixie]

In my opinion an act outside the law.
Comments from other coaches who frequent the site welcolme.

You are right about the intent and purpose - but you still need to find the law that is broken. Jarrod Burton rightly identifies two key candidates - not supporting your weight, and preventing the BC from rolling away. To me, as it is perfectly possible to grab a fistful of shirt without leaning on the tackled player, the latter [15.7(b)] is the optimum.

But as community refs, we are challenged here by the elite game (again!) having made this practice all-pervasive. Like the illegal saddle roll, low-level players see it myriad times in a pro game and wonder why they get pinged. The ref risks being seen as pernickety or just wrong. Dan, at junior levels there is a genuine safety and developmental issue - I'd keep pinging it. But at Old Fartonians Extra B? Judgement call on the day.

 

[Dan Cottrell]

Dixie, my own view is that is poor technique. The "grabber" stops at the ball, effectively reducing the chances of quick ball. His hands down lead to a poor body position as well.
I always referee against it and tell my players not to do it.
However, there is a group of players/coaches who have a view on the game that transcends the laws and the spirit of the laws. They are not overtly cheating or suggesting dangerous play. But they know better than the referees or the law makers. I am sure there is a collective and perhaps pejorative term for them.
Just frustrates me really.

 

[Browner]

Dixie, my own view is that is poor technique. The "grabber" stops at the ball, effectively reducing the chances of quick ball. His hands down lead to a poor body position as well.
I always referee against it and tell my players not to do it.
However, there is a group of players/coaches who have a view on the game that transcends the laws and the spirit of the laws. They are not overtly cheating or suggesting dangerous play. But they know better than the referees or the law makers. I am sure there is a collective and perhaps pejorative term for them.
Just frustrates me really.

When I watch premiership squads training, most of the 'technical' work that they do involves developing 'skills!' that are beyond the laws of the game. As the game becomes ever more professional the stated wish for 'less whistling' directly conflicts with how techniques are coached, in all it adds huge pressure on referees as there are now a host of laws that are routinely ignored in favour of 'spectator game-flow'.

 

[menace]

Dixie, my own view is that is poor technique. The "grabber" stops at the ball, effectively reducing the chances of quick ball. His hands down lead to a poor body position as well.
I always referee against it and tell my players not to do it.
However, there is a group of players/coaches who have a view on the game that transcends the laws and the spirit of the laws. They are not overtly cheating or suggesting dangerous play. But they know better than the referees or the law makers. I am sure there is a collective and perhaps pejorative term for them.
Just frustrates me really.

You do know to check on you I'm now going to check every one of those coaching tips you've ever emailed me!? Ill get back to you in about 3 years! epper:epper:epper:

 

[Dickie E]

I would let it go unless the shirt grabber is using the tackled player as ballast to prevent being cleaned out.

 

[menace]

I would let it go unless the shirt grabber is using the tackled player as ballast to prevent being cleaned out.

So we know the point of latching is to anchor down so you can't be cleaned out easily.
So exactly how many times have you ever pinged it? And what 2dry signal did you use?

 

[Dickie E]

maybe 2 or 3 times over the years. Player off feet signal.