Single File Ruck....

[Donk93953]

More and more in the states, we are seeing single file rucks.

Red player tackled.
Blue tackler rolls away.
Red tackled player places ball back for on-coming support.
His body is north and south towards try lines.

Instead of two players coming over the top of Red player on ground to establish "a wall", Red
support players come in single file.
Generally 2 or 3...single file players driving over the ball.
Think "conga line."

It makes the defensive, counter ruck really tough...because your gate is one man wide.
Coming from the side at even the slightest angle risks being penalized.

Are the only defensive opportunities...don't ruck and or go directly at the first man in the conga line?

So first how do you handle this as a ref....?
Secondly, how do you counter ruck it....?

 

[OB..]

This was rampant a couple of years ago but 16.7 (c) seems to have stopped it.[LAWS][FONT=fs_blakeregular]When the ball has been clearly won by a team at a ruck and the ball is available to be played the referee will call "Use it!" after which the ball must be played within five seconds. If the ball is not played within five seconds the referee will award a scrum and the team not in possession of the ball at the ruck is awarded the throw-in.[/FONT][/LAWS]

 

[collybs]

Are we talking about a ruck or a tackle - if a ruck there is no gate - players must come frrom behind the rear foot but may join at the side of a teammate.

Players joining or rejoining the ruck. A player joining a ruck must do so from behind the foot of the hindmost team-mate in the ruck. A player may join alongside this hindmost player. If a player joins the ruck from the opponents’ side, or in front of the hindmost team-mate, the player is offside. A player may bind onto an opposition player providing the player is not otherwise offside.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

It makes the defensive, counter ruck really tough...because your gate is one man wide.
Coming from the side at even the slightest angle risks being penalized.

Are the only defensive opportunities...don't ruck and or go directly at the first man in the conga line?

So first how do you handle this as a ref....?
Secondly, how do you counter ruck it....?

Do not allow offside line to be established ( do not ruck), encircle tackle are with 5 or 6 players, defend first receiver and potential pass receivers like man to man basketball, allow your fullback to collect any kicks

or let b/c evade tackle and impede conga line by getting obstructors between them and ballcarrier, thus isolate b/c. this may be illegal by blocking the ball. not usually called on defense so see if ya get away with it.

 

[Donk93953]

Do not allow offside line to be established ( do not ruck), encircle tackle are with 5 or 6 players, defend first receiver and potential pass receivers like man to man basketball, allow your fullback to collect any kicks

or let b/c evade tackle and impede conga line by getting obstructors between them and ballcarrier, thus isolate b/c. this may be illegal by blocking the ball. not usually called on defense so see if ya get away with it.

I'm not very smart...please explain this again....?
I"m not following you at all....

 

[The Fat]

I'm not very smart...please explain this again....?
I"m not following you at all....

In a nutshell, if a tackle is made and team mates of the tackler do not engage opposition players over the ball, no ruck has formed and therefore there are no offside lines.
You may wish to read through this thread
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?18780-Not-contesting-the-ruck
There are videos and accompanying discussion on the tactic there

 

[Donk93953]

Thank you....got it

 

[Browner]

Hi Donk,
I'm curious as to how exactly the ball is normally extracted from this "conga line of support Parking players" does first-in-conga pick it up?, or 2nd, or 3rd, or does conga line move beyond the ball leaving it for 9? Or does 9 move up the conga to take the ball from under the feet of #2 outta 4 conga'ers .

Presumably the hope is always that conga #1 engages with opponent to form a ruck & its then that the conga-ruck is created when 2 & 3&4 join on ?

 

[didds]

presumably the conga ruck is designed to keep the ball well away from any clsoe defenders, and the ball is heeled back along the conga to the rear player. 5 seconds use it presumably cannot be called until the ball is at the rear of the conga as the s/h couldn't extract it until it got there . The alternative could be that a mid-conga player with the ball between him and the team mate in friont of him could unbind, now leaving the ball 2out" - and he could at this juncture pick the ball up.

I don;t see the benefit of more than maybe 2 conga-ruckers though.

didds

 

[OB..]

presumably the conga ruck is designed to keep the ball well away from any clsoe defenders, and the ball is heeled back along the conga to the rear player. 5 seconds use it presumably cannot be called until the ball is at the rear of the conga as the s/h couldn't extract it until it got there .

Agree the s/h could not go past the rear foot.

The alternative could be that a mid-conga player with the ball between him and the team mate in friont of him could unbind, now leaving the ball 2out" - and he could at this juncture pick the ball up.

Since I haven't seen the conga line for some time now, I suspect this is the way the call would be used.

 

[Browner]

presumably the conga ruck is designed to keep the ball well away from any clsoe defenders, and the ball is heeled back along the conga to the rear player. 5 seconds use it presumably cannot be called until the ball is at the rear of the conga as the s/h couldn't extract it until it got there . The alternative could be that a mid-conga player with the ball between him and the team mate in friont of him could unbind, now leaving the ball 2out" - and he could at this juncture pick the ball u

I don;t see the benefit of more than maybe 2 conga-ruckers though.

didds

That question was on my mind in my questioning, Didds?

Can you????
If you are #2 bound into a ruck, then when you "unbind" then arent you required to retreat behind the offside line of the aforementioned ruck , which before you unbound - was located behind conga#4 2m behind you??? . Similarly, does your "unbinding" at position#2 force #3/4/5 to automatically be removed, after all they didn't unbind from the ruck, only you did! Conceptually can your unbinding unbind others?

 

[Donk93953]

Hi Donk,
I'm curious as to how exactly the ball is normally extracted from this "conga line of support Parking players" does first-in-conga pick it up?, or 2nd, or 3rd, or does conga line move beyond the ball leaving it for 9? Or does 9 move up the conga to take the ball from under the feet of #2 outta 4 conga'ers .

Presumably the hope is always that conga #1 engages with opponent to form a ruck & its then that the conga-ruck is created when 2 & 3&4 join on ?

Generally they ruck it back single file maybe 2 players, occasionally 3.
#9 them picks it up...

 

[didds]

oooo.. good questions browner...

didds

 

[didds]

I suppose the answer is ... if the conga breaks in the middle and the offside line was to remain the previously rear foot... what state is the ruck in?

If the ball is OUT then how can there now be an offside line to move behind? But if its not out... what is it? because its not IN as there are no players closed around the ball etc?

didds

 

[Browner]

Generally they ruck it back single file maybe 2 players, occasionally 3.
#9 them picks it up...

Then it sounds slow, static target and th4 susceptible to an aggressive (disrupting) counter-rucking, & th4 of little value.

Unless Donk you can explain why its reaping big reward?????

 

[Browner]

I suppose the answer is ... if the conga breaks in the middle and the offside line was to remain the previously rear foot... what state is the ruck in?

If the ball is OUT then how can there now be an offside line to move behind? But if its not out... what is it? because its not IN as there are no players closed around the ball etc?

didds

I imagine that Law drafters expected that once created, the ball would exit the ruck when players pushed past the ball , hense

[LAWS][FONT=fs_blakeregular]16.6[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular] Successful end to a ruck
[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]A ruck ends successfully when the ball leaves the ruck, or when the ball is on or over the goal line.[/FONT][/LAWS]

So, in the absence of anything better then its, ball leaves ruck - not 'ruck separates' , to make ball playable?

 

[Browner]

I suppose the answer is ... if the conga breaks in the middle and the offside line was to remain the previously rear foot... what state is the ruck in?

If the ball is OUT then how can there now be an offside line to move behind? But if its not out... what is it? because its not IN as there are no players closed around the ball etc?

didds

A disjoined ruck ????? Why not insist that conga#3 #4 complete their obligated shove over/ stepping beyond the ball? After all they joined this conga ruck of their own choice.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

I suppose the answer is ... if the conga breaks in the middle and the offside line was to remain the previously rear foot... what state is the ruck in?

If the ball is OUT then how can there now be an offside line to move behind? But if its not out... what is it? because its not IN as there are no players closed around the ball etc?

didds

Ball is out if it is aft of last foot in ruck when conga line is seperated, and a new offside line for attackers is formed forward if ball is fore of last foot when conga music stops at new last foot.

 

[ChrisR]

Ball is out if it is aft of last foot in ruck when conga line is seperated, and a new offside line for attackers is formed forward if ball is fore of last foot when conga music stops at new last foot.

If the ball is out then there is no new offside line because we are back in general play.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Ball is out if it is aft of last foot in ruck when conga line is seperated, OR new offside line for attackers is formed forward if ball is fore of last foot when conga music stops at new last foot.

If the ball is out then there is no new offside line because we are back in general play.

I can only agree, so i fixed my sentence