Steve Walsh and scrums

[bcm666]

This is written in the immediate aftermath of a dominant and deserved Welsh victory.

What right does Walsh or any referee have to tell a player (Tom Youngs) to stand precisely on a particular spot and not move. Unbelievable. A man with a Messiah complex writ large.

 

[Waspsfan]

'I don't have a problem with Wales pushing early, England have to wise up and do it as well'

Thanks for that Brian.

 

[4eyesbetter]

Shouldn't you be off at some meedja piss-up, or something like that?

Thanks for the insight during the tournament, as ever you make complicated things seem simple for this casual fan.

 

[sgoat]

Brian,

I couldn't hear exactly what was said initially but judging my Adam Jones' (Wales 3) gesturing he was suggesting that the new England prop, Vunipola (England 18) was not lining up correctly, and so he had no where to engage. It then seemed as if Steve Walsh tried to manage the situation and get the England pack to off-set from the mark. Judging by what was said next the England team appeared to pack down where they had been asked, but then the hooker (Youngs) moved them back. At this point the referee told the England pack was was expected of them.

If I have read the situation correctly then this is good management, consistent with the principle of Ask, Tell, Penalise.

What right does Walsh or any referee have to tell a player (Tom Youngs) to stand precisely on a particular spot and not move.

I think the way you have written it, it of course sounds ridiculous, but when you consider what the referee was trying to achieve then it does make sense.

 

[FlipFlop]

Well, Walsh PK'ed Eng early for standing when Welsh 1 drove in and up. Ten he penalised Welsh for standing when Eng did the same. Later on he penalised End, despite Welsh tighthead (replacement) dropping binding and moving arm inside and trying to lever Eng bind off.

Scrums a mess.

And then before the Welsh first try, the England turnover, Welsh hanging on, no PK'ED as Eng eventually wrestled it free. Sure they would prefer the PK on the 22.

generally though Welsh flooded the breakdown and England didn't, but some of the PKs or non-PKs seemed a bit of a lottery.

Unusually for games like this, struggled to understand a lot of decisions.

 

[Phil E]

At the top level the ref makes a mark parallel to the touch line for the scrum (the opposite of how we do it at grass roots), the ref then tells both hookers to line up to the left of the mark. This is to stop them butting heads. If the hooker doesn't line up as requested, then he gets what's coming to him.

Unusually for games like this, struggled to understand a lot of decisions.

Me too FF

 

[Browner]

Did I see AJ put his right hand on the shoulder of MV, insodoing prevent MV getting any bind, & then AJ proceed to push MV downwards & Welsh won a Penalty .......... or am i mistaken ?

 

[Account Deleted]

We cheated from start to finish. England were cheated. We are so bad and naughty. I'm glad England up-holded the traditions of honest play.

 

[Toby Warren]

What an odd post Attr. Everyone is saying Wales were the better side, no one is saying Walsh changed the result - just a lot of very puzzled people.

 

[didds]

ATTR - cheating is inherrent. What galls is when some refs choose to ignore blatant cheating to ping others.

Apprently you are now permitted to kneel on the ground to pull a ball out of post tackle to set up a turnover - I never knew that was permitted. And you can bore in , collapse your oppo and win a PK as well. As for the put that foot here and you do that foot here and now I'll wait and wait and wait until somebody wobbles so i can ping them - lets just get on with the game Steve. Scrums at this level are poxy enoug as it is without refs trying to create ways to PK someone.

Wales thoughly deserved their win and championship - they totally outplayed England in all areas. But lets not pretend Walsh seems to understand what he is doing in certain circumstances - and BCM666 picked up on this a few times this afternoon. (About 3 secionds after me every time as it happened Brian ;-)

didds

 

[Browner]

We cheated from start to finish. England were cheated. We are so bad and naughty. I'm glad England up-holded the traditions of honest play.

Don't be a plonka ATTR me ol mucker, the point that you've ignored was ...... if it's obvious to me, then it mustve been bloody obvious to a Elite AR on the blindside of SW, & who is 100% concentrating on that 'engagement'?

We both know that AJ did a 'job' on MV but , where was the 'advice from Mr independant AR ' to Walsh?

Lets be Fair to ATTR everyone, he's likely well 'stewed' by now, so would I be - if results were reversed

 

[rocco]

I was surprised SW was appointed to this important game given his history and problems. He delivered the performance expected and I think he reduced it from the fair and enjoyable contest it could have been. Wales on that form were always going to win but it would have been a better game with an official without that agenda.

 

[Davet]

Not sure what you mean by "agenda".

England failed to adapt to the ref, Wales did.

 

[SimonSmith]

Oh, that's a coded reference to the barney that SW had with England during the World Cup.

I got back from Britain early last week, and managed to fill in with all the 6N matches I didn't see in the States.

I'll be honest and say that I never used to be a SW fan. I'm not 100% convinced about some of his management, but for me he's the standout selection to referee the Lions series. I've been impressed.

 

[Account Deleted]

... it would have been a better game with an official without that agenda.

Supporting evidence?

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Don't be a plonka ATTR me ol mucker, the point that you've ignored was ...... if it's obvious to me, then it mustve been bloody obvious to a Elite AR on the blindside of SW, & who is 100% concentrating on that 'engagement'?

We both know that AJ did a 'job' on MV but , where was the 'advice from Mr independant AR ' to Walsh?

Lets be Fair to ATTR everyone, he's likely well 'stewed' by now, so would I be - if results were reversed

Not stewed at all. It is very sad that you have to stoop to personal insults instead of examining the game. Interesting! Me thinks you protest too much.

But it is " funny" how it is always the "other side" that cheats.

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Not sure what you mean by "agenda".

England failed to adapt to the ref, Wales did.

Spot on!


(Red) rose coloured specs off now boys!

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I'll be honest and say that I never used to be a SW fan. I'm not 100% convinced about some of his management, but for me he's the standout selection to referee the Lions series. I've been impressed.

Far better display that the Scotland Vs Wales game last week.

 

[Account Deleted]

ATTR - cheating is inherrent. What galls is when some refs choose to ignore blatant cheating to ping others.

Apprently you are now permitted to kneel on the ground to pull a ball out of post tackle to set up a turnover - I never knew that was permitted. And you can bore in , collapse your oppo and win a PK as well. As for the put that foot here and you do that foot here and now I'll wait and wait and wait until somebody wobbles so i can ping them - lets just get on with the game Steve. Scrums at this level are poxy enoug as it is without refs trying to create ways to PK someone.

Wales thoughly deserved their win and championship - they totally outplayed England in all areas. But lets not pretend Walsh seems to understand what he is doing in certain circumstances - and BCM666 picked up on this a few times this afternoon. (About 3 secionds after me every time as it happened Brian ;-)

didds

And Walsh never "ignored" any English cheating. Oh sorry that was not "material". Silly me.

The smell of hypocrisy is rife!

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What an odd post Attr. Everyone is saying Wales were the better side, no one is saying Walsh changed the result - just a lot of very puzzled people.

Funny how Wales beat you and the wingefest starts at the final whistle. Good grace people. That is all.

 

[menace]

Didn't see the game, and can't comment on SW...but just remember

When SW does good he's :aus:
When SW does bad he's :nz:
When SW does neither he's 'Hollywood'

Seems by the feedback he's holding dual citizenship in the UK!

(Truth be known, he's probably just feking with your England emotions prior to your jubilation of your ashes win! epper

 

[The Fat]

Didn't see the game, and can't comment on SW...but just remember

When SW does good he's :aus:
When SW does bad he's :nz:
When SW does neither he's 'Hollywood'

Seems by the feedback he's holding dual citizenship in the UK!

(Truth be known, he's probably just feking with your England emotions prior to your jubilation of your ashes win! epper

Are we even going to bother to turn up considering how we're doing in India?
I would suggest the England cricket team get on the p!ss and start celebrating now. It's the only chance we'll have of causing an upset

 

[Toby Warren]

And Walsh never "ignored" any English cheating. Oh sorry that was not "material". Silly me.

The smell of hypocrisy is rife!

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Funny how Wales beat you and the wingefest starts at the final whistle. Good grace people. That is all.

No the whinge started the momment he was appointed.

If you read my post - he was poor full stop - he failed to deal with England's presistant offending.

But if you want to think it was an Attempt to shift blame feel free - you'd
be wrong but carry on thinking it.

 

[Wedgie]

No the whinge started the momment he was appointed.

"On Twitter last week I said I would have a £1 bet with anybody in Wales that England would win. Yet the eagle-eyed among will remember I cancelled this bet the moment I realised Walsh was the referee. I owe the 300-odd of you who took me up on that bet before I changed my mind a pound.". Austin Healey in the Telegraph