Tackle short of the line, placed, ruck formed, ruck pushes over the goal line, decision?

[Flish]

Tackle has been called as short, ball is still 'placed' by the tackled ball carrier on the ground, and now over the line (not a holding on penalty), and not the back player at the ruck placing the ball down, just dragged over the line by the attacking team rucking (now an ex ruck). Thoughts?

 

[BikingBud]

If it was placed on the ground and then found its way into goal, then based upon the laws of physics (a body at rest etc) it was either not released and carried (penalty - players on the ground cannot play the ball) or it was propelled forward via knock on, might including rolling forward after being "placed", or other part of the body. If knocked on scrum, if it was kicked were members of the attacking side in front of the ball and offside?

It might be it all occurred so quick and there is nothing clear and obvious. But if there is certainty that the ball was placed rather than carried in then I see few other options to consider.

 

[didds]

If it was placed on the ground and then found its way into goal, then based upon the laws of physics (a body at rest etc) it was either not released and carried (penalty - players on the ground cannot play the ball) or it was propelled forward via knock on, might including rolling forward after being "placed", or other part of the body. If knocked on scrum, if it was kicked were members of the attacking side in front of the ball and offside?

It might be it all occurred so quick and there is nothing clear and obvious. But if there is certainty that the ball was placed rather than carried in then I see few other options to consider.

It COULD have been CAREFULLY toed forward by a ruck until over the line and then touched down by that toeing player (ruck is over
This would presume the tackled player fell in goal but presented in the FoP (why not just score though!!!!!)
OR
was tackled in FoP but ended up in goal somehow providing sufficient room for the toed ball to at least reach the line but not touch his body (offside)
TBH unless there's a video showing what happened I would suggest this is extremely unlikely to ever occur - at least legally? The ball getting in goal is the least problematic of the scenarios required.

Happy to be wrong!

 

[Dickie E]

True story. Player tackled close to line and about to place ball back. Would-be jackler grabs player instead of ball and drags him over goal line. Try time!

 

[BikingBud]

It COULD have been CAREFULLY toed forward by a ruck until over the line and then touched down by that toeing player (ruck is over
This would presume the tackled player fell in goal but presented in the FoP (why not just score though!!!!!)
OR
was tackled in FoP but ended up in goal somehow providing sufficient room for the toed ball to at least reach the line but not touch his body (offside)
TBH unless there's a video showing what happened I would suggest this is extremely unlikely to ever occur - at least legally? The ball getting in goal is the least problematic of the scenarios required.

Happy to be wrong!

Yep if you're in goal the place in any direction has to be a try doesn't it.

Nice thought about carefully toed forward but some, well many, of the clumsy oafs I have played with have no concept of careful foot placement, that's the reality I experienced from many years of being trodden on, stamped on, "rooked" by great lummoxes of second rows with size 14 Thames barges for feet and that was just my own teammates.

 

[Flish]

Yep if you're in goal the place in any direction has to be a try doesn't it.

Nice thought about carefully toed forward but some, well many, of the clumsy oafs I have played with have no concept of careful foot placement, that's the reality I experienced from many years of being trodden on, stamped on, "rooked" by great lummoxes of second rows with size 14 Thames barges for feet and that was just my own teammates.

Did you see my game at the weekend by any chance? Push over try from 5m, all he had to do was control the ball with his foot, got a bit excited, hoofed it a bit and decided the best course of action was to push the ball over the goal line with his hand, and then ground it

 

[SimonSmith]

Nice thought about carefully toed forward but some, well many, of the clumsy oafs I have played with have no concept of careful foot placement, that's the reality I experienced from many years of being trodden on, stamped on, "rooked" by great lummoxes of second rows with size 14 Thames barges for feet and that was just my own teammates.

Did the thought ever occur to you that the feet were going exactly where they wanted them to go?

 

[didds]

Nice thought about carefully toed forward but some, well many, of the clumsy oafs I have played with have no concept of careful foot placement, that's the reality I experienced from many years of being trodden on, stamped on, "rooked" by great lummoxes of second rows with size 14 Thames barges for feet and that was just my own teammates.

Yup. Which is why I said carefully etc. Otherwise its a freeby scrum for accidental offside to the defending team _

 

[didds]

True story. Player tackled close to line and about to place ball back. Would-be jackler grabs player instead of ball and drags him over goal line. Try time!

Attacker or defender?
"jackler" suggests defender ?
Had the attacker released the ball at that juncture ? Accepting he "should have done" but in the past couple of decades it may not be so "immediate" if the defender isn't claiming the ball, so all the defender has done now is presented the tackled player with a grounding =try opportunity!

 

[jdeagro]

Tackle has been called as short, ball is still 'placed' by the tackled ball carrier on the ground, and now over the line (not a holding on penalty)...

How did the ball get to over "the line"?

 

[Flish]

How did the ball get to over "the line"?

That I think in this case was part of the mystery, I think the solution was to breathe before calling short and committing to 'tackle complete'. In this case ball carrier fell in the prawn position, back and arms on the goal line and ball in the field of play, 'short' was called', look up, look down and the ball was on the goal line - try was given and no one grumbled but it looked odd from my position

 

[jdeagro]

...look up, look down and the ball was on the goal line - try was given and no one grumbled but it looked odd from my position

Welp, if no infringement was clearly seen to be found, then I think one can only go off what they did see which was ball was grounded on the goal line (if I'm understanding you correctly), therefore try awarded. Even better no one grumbled. Regardless of how odd it seemed.