Things that annoy me

[Deeps]

There are certain niggly aspects about the modern game and its officiating that annoy me. Many of these stem from unpunished infringements yet, as they tend to be demonstrated repeatedly during televised games, the perception created among players and spectators alike is that these actions are legal or at least acceptable. I have a mission to stamp them out!

Some may accuse me of nit picking or of being unnecessarily pedantic. I'll agree to an extent but do we really have the luxury of deciding which laws to enforce and which ones to ignore? I think not; they bind us all. If Law is wrong then others will change it. This is not to say we should pounce and whistle players off the park but we should at least be more conscientious about our preventative approach during the game.

Here’s my current list to which I may well add to from time to time:

1. Players wearing plastic hockey/soccer type shin pads with those nasty sharp edges that could cause slicing damage to bare skin; wearing them under socks isn’t good enough, socks come down. We have sorted out headgear and shoulder padding now (you no longer see bits of Grandpa’s old motor bike leathers being used for protection mainly because there is a ready supply of regulated IRB labelled clothing available), however, I have not seen IRB labels on shin pads yet. Cloth covered padded shin pads are fine but let’s get rid of the plastic variety. Law 4.1 (b) Regulation 12 1(b).

2. Soccer studs. I know that we are supposed to check for sharp studs only nowadays and are not supposed to comment on the legality of footwear yet this new approach has yet to curb the occurrence of soccer studs which are in contravention of Law. When, in 5 years time you are standing in the dock accused of negligence and all you have to protect you is a dog eared copy of the Laws of the Game, I wonder what the judge will say with respect to why you allowed little Johnny to play in boots whose studs clearly did not conform to Law? No, it is not paranoia, just a little tinkling warning bell. Law 4.3 and Regulation 12.

3. At the kick off, kicking the ball from over the half way line. Law 13.1.

4. Feeding in the scrum. Law 20.6 (d). If it has to be straight in the line out then it sure has to be straight on put in to the scrum. Where has the excitement of hooking one against the head gone? Are we really trying to revert to League?

5. Tap kicks that don’t leave the kicker’s hands. Law 21.4 (c).

I'll think of a few more...

 

[Robert Burns]

1. Players wearing plastic hockey/soccer type shin pads with those nasty sharp edges that could cause slicing damage to bare skin; wearing them under socks isn’t good enough, socks come down. We have sorted out headgear and shoulder padding now (you no longer see bits of Grandpa’s old motor bike leathers being used for protection mainly because there is a ready supply of regulated IRB labelled clothing available), however, I have not seen IRB labels on shin pads yet. Cloth covered padded shin pads are fine but let’s get rid of the plastic variety. Law 4.1 (b) Regulation 12 1(b).

2. Soccer studs. I know that we are supposed to check for sharp studs only nowadays and are not supposed to comment on the legality of footwear yet this new approach has yet to curb the occurrence of soccer studs which are in contravention of Law. When, in 5 years time you are standing in the dock accused of negligence and all you have to protect you is a dog eared copy of the Laws of the Game, I wonder what the judge will say with respect to why you allowed little Johnny to play in boots whose studs clearly did not conform to Law? No, it is not paranoia, just a little tinkling warning bell. Law 4.3 and Regulation 12.

3. At the kick off, kicking the ball from over the half way line. Law 13.1.

4. Feeding in the scrum. Law 20.6 (d). If it has to be straight in the line out then it sure has to be straight on put in to the scrum. Where has the excitement of hooking one against the head gone? Are we really trying to revert to League?

5. Tap kicks that don’t leave the kicker’s hands. Law 21.4 (c).

I'll think of a few more...

1, I check that they are not sharp, as you say they are not regulated so unless apparently dangerous I really have no right to not allow then. Your court action could reverse here when Johnny gets his shin broken because you wouldn't let him wear his shin pads, you say they were sharp he says no they wern't, blah blah...... I agree this needs some IRB guidence.

2, Again, I check for sharps, none present all fine, beware that Canterbury also now produce rugby studs that look like football studs, I have them in my boots!

3, Always ping this, been called picky loads of times for this.

4, same as above.

5, same as above, law says something like space must be visable OR if kicked off the ground it must leave the mark.

I don't think your being picky, first two are serious concerns that IRB should do something about, although they put the onus on the player, it is ultimately the referee that lets them get on the pitch.

The last three are very minor laws within the game, nevertheless though, they are laws.

 

[Deeps]

Your court action could reverse here when Johnny gets his shin broken because you wouldn't let him wear his shin pads, you say they were sharp he says no they were not, blah blah......]

If he can show me an IRB label then he can wear them. Players 'may' wear shinpads...they are not compulsory. If I invite little Johnny to remove his illegal clothing, I do not insist that he then plays. If he or his parent/carer think that he is now at risk then they have the choice as to whether he plays or not but he will certainly not play with illegal clothing if I am responsible where other players are at risk of injury.

Other betes noire that have come to mind include;

- players who do not retire 10 metres when the penalty/free kick is against them and/or who take the ball away thus, through misconduct, wiping out any advantage the non offending team might have had. It seems as though it has become customary to admonish the offender while the offending team readily accept the 10 metres giving themselves ample time to re organise. Yes I deal with this situation too but it is a poor reflection of the state of the game and of previous lax refereeing that it needs the imminent threat of a yellow card to get players to comply.

On these occasions I am of the mind to allow a second quick penalty, just to make the point. I know that it is normal, verily even the IRB's wish, that only one quick penalty is allowed at a time but this is not actually enshrined in law and a swift double dose at the discretion of the referee causes sufficient alarm and panic to encourage players to comply a little quicker next time. It also wakes them up to the fact that the referee might come up with something else they are not expecting.

- poor/inadequate leadership. The referee is there to manage the game on behalf of the two Captains. He needs not only the cooperation of the Captains but their active participation in regulating the activities and behaviour of the players during the game in order to keep everyone honest. These are the best games when an effective team of three on the field of play works to enable all participants to enjoy the game. Those who leap to the defence of their players (who can do no wrong of course) at every infringement, eagerly pointing out some totally unrelated and previous activity by a member of the opposition, do nothing to add to the game. Very quickly the blame for their own failings will be dumped on the referee resulting in hard work for the latter and lack of enjoyment all round.

The best Captains consult with the referee; they not only accept his decisions fully, whether they agree or not, but quickly exhort their players to do likewise and move on. Should the referee unusually have a severe yet temporary cerebral abberration then a wry smile and humour can save embarrassment and get things back in perspective. The good skipper will be heard encouraging his players, reminding them that the referee is all seeing and being constructive; that they owe it to the team to listen to the referee's positive encouragement to avoid penalty. These Captains are a rare and an almost extinct species.

 

[SimonSmith]

Did you have a bad weekend Deeps?

Everyone has a list of bu bears. Near the top of mine just now is players going to ground and being amazed when I penalize it.

And I swear to God, the next time I hear "But I was on my feet" when I ping hands in a ruck, I'm not going to be responsible for the consequences of my actions!

 

[Deeps]

Did you have a bad weekend Deeps?

Everyone has a list of bu bears. Near the top of mine just now is players going to ground and being amazed when I penalize it.

And I swear to God, the next time I hear "But I was on my feet" when I ping hands in a ruck, I'm not going to be responsible for the consequences of my actions!

Simon I actually had a good weekend for a change thank you but chuckled at your observation all the same. Nomads vs Fawley was a good game, then the disappointment of England's performance against Ireland, or rather, Ireland's well deserved win and some interesting refereeing to digest in slomo. Havant U13s Sunday morning and PGS 7s in the afternoon - a very good weekend overall.

My collection of betes noire is based on a summary of this season's activities as we move along into the 7s tournaments. I suppose I am looking for some sort of consensus to help cure these various ills. Yet, we do have the prospect of change looming for, after a relatively law change free couple of years, there are whispers of new law to get our heads around. So just when we have about got things sorted, there is the risk of change to muddy the waters again.

 

[Robert Burns]

Had our refs meeting tonight, was told about the new levels for refs and must say was a little confused, will email Dave to get a clearer picture of it I think so I can thrust it on you all to tear apart....er.....I mean discuss.

 

[Deeps]

Had our refs meeting tonight, was told about the new levels for refs and must say was a little confused, will email Dave to get a clearer picture of it I think so I can thrust it on you all to tear apart....er.....I mean discuss.

Robert,

Hampshire RURS has been working the revised nomenclature virtually all season and it doesn't seem to have made any difference really. Was there any explanation as to why there was need for the change? It's not that chap Petronius Arbiter at it again is it?

"We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization."

 

[Pablo]

Yes, these all sound like very familiar tales of woe... but what really gets my goat has nothing to do with the Law, or even the game... Late/zero notice of a cancellation really p!$$es me off something chronic!!! Many's the time I've been phoned halfway through my journey to a game to be told that it's been called off. ("I've been trying to get in touch with you all morning, but I couldn't get through to your phone"... when my phone has been sat in my pocket, switched on but definitely not ringing, all day). Worse still is when I've actually shown up at a clubhouse to be told the game was cancelled. ("Oh, we thought you knew." What am I, psychic? Aaargggh!!! You people annoy me!)

As long as there's a game of rugby when I get to a clubhouse, I'll usually be content with eveything else...

 

[Deeps]

This season I have decided that I will no longer make tactical playing decisions for the players. For example, Dave Tooke has an interesting solution to the perennial problem of '10 sir?, 10 referee?' at penalty kicks. He says 'No, go back further!' on each occasion. I tried it yesterday and it worked a treat; it was not long before a voice called 'Don't ask him'.

The eternal question of my interpretation of when the ball is out is met with 'You try it and I'll let you know when you get it wrong'.

Yet at the lineout and because of the need to maintain space, I will still indicate when I consider the lineout is over if it is not obvious. If it is obvious then I leave it to the No. 10's to make the call. Try asking a No 10 at the briefing before the game what his understanding of when the lineout is over is; knowledge in this area is not good.

A new betes noire to add to my list is the assumption by a team that they have won the penalty. A fraction after the whistle and while the call is being made there follows a quick tap by the offending side and away it goes before play is called back for the non offending side to take the kick. Having duly chastised on the first occurence I then treat subsequent transgressions as time wasting and march the offenders 10 metres towards their own goal line.

 

[Davet]

Deeps - glad to be of service.

I pinged a lock who has been playing for at least 6 years to my sure and certain knowledge for being offside - stood to the side of a ruck and then tackling the scrum half who darted round.

sez he - "I was behind the ball, sir!"
sez I - "you were indeed, now get back 10"

In the bar later it transpires that he honestly thought that the requirement was to be behind the ball. When asked why he thought refs kept shouting things like "back feet" all the time he confessed that he never really listened to the ref as his head guard made it hard to hear......

Ah well.

 

[Deeps]

Dave - The worrying thing is that the lack of knowledge of even basic law is quite widespread and amongst seasoned players in particular as you point out. As you struggle in the weeds to make up for the coach's knowledge deficiency and attempt to extract some semblance of rugby from the players, invariably you end up being accused of spoiling the game. 'Could lighten up a little', 'nit picked on points of law' and 'bit picky with some aspects' from my feedback cards.

One wonders whether preventative refereeing has gone too far. It's all well and good with players who know the law and are testing your tolerance of the fringes but with a side that is horribly ignorant or U18's flexing their young muscles then the grey fringes revert to black and white after the first hint. Player ignorance of law is not a reason for the referee to 'lighten up a bit' in order to perpetuate rugby mythology according to Stuart Barnes.

 

[Deeps]

I thought that I should dust this thread off again; it makes interesting back reading. Although my pet hates have not altered, my techniques in managing them have developed such that my anger is perhaps more controlled nowadays.

My current mission is to stamp out swearing, specifically use of the 'c' and 'f' words, which is aimed at both senior and junior rugby. With dismay I heard far too much of it used by players from largely independent schools this last weekend at an early season tournament. Colleagues dished out a couple of yellow cards before the buzz got around that swearing would not be tolerated.

England's World Cup success certainly attracted a lot of new people to the game, unfortunately some brought their soccer attitudes and behaviour with them. Already this season I have witnessed a player first punch then kick an opponent in the face. Mitigation offered by one of his colleagues was that he was a recent convert from soccer and had not learned rugby ways yet!

I now include a comment in my briefing to skippers that, with the possible exception of severe trauma or child birth, neither of which are expected that afternoon, swearing is not acceptable. I will require a £1 donation to be placed behind the bar and to the Wooden Spoon Society for each occurence. Further, if I catch wilful use then a yellow card for unsportsmanlike behaviour may be appropriate. For U19 sides, where occurence is more prevalent as it is apparently 'cool' to use offensive language, I offer a 10 push up penalty there and then as an option to a yellow card, leaving parents and coaches somewhat bemused on the touchlines. In both cases sanctions are usually effective, taken in good humour and only one application becomes necessary. At the end of last season a well respected player hereabouts took me to one side after a game to offer his support for this stance for 'we don't want to see our game infected by soccer behaviour, do we?'

How do others manage the use of unacceptable language? Please don't ask the Cornish Society secretary for an opinion - he has a reputation for colourful and unusual language as part of his management technique.

 

[madref]

Hi Deeps

I like your list of things that bug you! I was talking to one of our Elite referees and he has the same thing about ball kicked off in front of the line. I saw him do 2 level 3 friendlies and both sides where pinged for it. The faces of the players where a picture.

Hel also pinged the not straight and a couple of other things that a lot of people would see as nit pickie!

Now certain offences that always occur in a game, like off sides at rucks and mauls didn't just happen as the players soon realised that he was seeing everything so why try and push him any further. His assesor told me he was execellent.

He gained the players respect and the crowd actually asking who is this ref he is good. He also managed certain things which I would have pinged. One was a sort of trip which was not material on the game. In earshot of me he just walked up to the player who was tripped said I saw it , it was not material on the game or dangerous I will have a word! (I will sort it not you). Next breakdown again in front of me he said to the player who did the trip, do that again or anything like that again there will be no yellow it will be a straight red. This time you have the benefit of the doubt.

It worked a treat no more foul play and just a good game of rugby makes you look at your own management technique.

David

Now bad language I must admit reading you post I come across as very tolerant. If I hear the c word or f word at junior level u16 and below I ping it. If I hear it above that level if I do not know who said it, it is very difficult to deal with it. One thing that does work for me if somebody swears in my ear shot and know who it is I ping them for discent. Sir is always the reply I was saying it to myself or my own player. I tell them you better not say it as it looked like you where saying it to me. This usually works.

I had a funny incident on Sat scrum half too much chat all match, knocked on at the back of a ruck. I said hard luck, captin came over said sir he didn't knock on didn't hit the ground. I said look at his face you can tell he knock on, I said this with a smile scrum half said its not f***kin funny sir, I said this is back 10 for swearing at me!

 

[Jacko]

It didn't happen to me while I was reffing, but I'd have been spitting feathers if it had. I was watching an exchange ref doing a team of three with two of our local refs. I've done one for him in the past and his TJ briefing is good. One of the things he specifically asked was to communicate when a kick went over so that both TJs indicate the same result. Either he didn't make it clear to the TJs in the game I was watching or they ignored it, as a kick went close to a post. The TJ on that post ran off with flag down, making the guy at the far post feel a trifle silly holding his aloft. Much guffawing ensued from the large crowd of uni students, and the whole team of three was made to look foolish.
I think every TJ brief should end with "And whatever you do, don't make me look like a prat".

 

[tim White]

Language Timothy!

I might have a schools U18 game this week, with a good crowd. I'll definitely make the point in the brief about language, not sure if I should penalise it though. Any insults and bad langauge directed at me is always penalised, one sent off for multiple doses. "If you affect my game, I'll affect yours" - abuse and dissent always affects me, some days more than others.

 

[OB..]

The classic response :

Player:"Sir, I was talking to myself!"

Referee:"When I am refereeing, nobody is allowed to talk to you like that."

 

[Robert Burns]

The classic response :

Player:"Sir, I was talking to myself!"

Referee:"When I am refereeing, nobody is allowed to talk to you like that."

that IS Classic, I need to remember that, it's class!

 

[tim White]

The classic response :

Player:"Sir, I was talking to myself!"

Ref: "I, The other players, coaches, and massive crowd did not listen deliberately-but we still heard you"

 

[tim White]

Is this TEN sir?

If there is time I often reply "As a general rule teams that ask "is this ten sir?" usually aren't! On subsequent occasions I go to the "Back ten please" and look for a reaction. Eventually falling back onto "stand where you think ten metres is, I'll let you know with the whistle if I think you're short of that".

Last week I missed a "professional" not ten metres when, with hindsight I should perhaps have blown, moved it ten metres forward and yellow carded the player for slowing the game down in his 22. The expression on the players face spoke volumes as he knew he got one over on me. I'll be looking for it, and him, next time.

 

[Bryan]

On the RFU forums, there was mention of a former Panel referee who, when asked if the defending team was back 10 would always reply "No, keep going back" whether they were 10 m or not. This would quickly dawn on the teams, who after awhile stopped asking him and just took a couple of extra steps to be sure.

Whenever I have TJs I'll use them to mark 10 m. Then again you can have TJs who both have no concept of 10m and one will mark out 5m, the other 15m!

On the topic of things that annoy me, do players think I'm blind to a player getting injured? (DON'T answer that!).

ME: Blue scrum, knock on in the tackle by Red 10
Red 1: Sir, Man down
ME: Yes, Alright gents, the time's off
Red 3: Sir, there's a man down
Red 5: Sir, Injury sir, man down
ME: Thank you gents, anyone else wish to contribute to the status of the injured player?

-Bryan