To call "Ruck" or not to call ruck.

[OB..]

Running away because the big boys might otherwise trample over you?

That is just a deliberately emotive way of putting it. The alternative view is that David is using his brains to outplay an idiot Goliath. Equally emotive and equally unhelpful.

I don't see why the attackers have any right, moral or otherwise, to require the opponents to play the way they want.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Dixe as wendyball is to draughts so rugby union is to chess. That I get.

Running away because the big boys might otherwise trample over you? That I don't get. Besides, tactics have to be coached and, as I've said before, coaching is a form of cheating. Just play up and play the game.

or something!

I see, so the team that doesn't compete well at the maul should just "man up" and get steamrollered for their trouble? Why should they?

In fact, the Italians do compete for the ball, they make an end run around the mob and go directly for the ball carrier. That is a very effective way to compete for the ball as most times, they win possession

England spent most of 2001-2003 playing rugby that deliberately stifled back-play...why? Because back-play was their weakness, they kept it tight and in the forwards (hide-the-pill) where opposition backs, who were often superior to theirs, could never get their hands on the ball.

New Zealand tries to keep the ball in play as much as possible, avoiding putting the ball into touch.... why? Because the line-out is a weakness in their game, so they try to avoid them


These are called... tactics and without them, Rugby Union would be a boring, one-dimensional game (like Rugby League) where the action is patterned and predictable and all teams play the same way.

 

[Davet]

The objective of the game is to score more points thatn the opposition. Not more tries, and not to prove how butch you are mano a mano.

The laws form the structure that differentiates our game from the others, understanding the Laws of any game is key to structuring good intelligent play, and to winning.

Using the Laws to effect good intelligent tactics isn't a form of cheating, and you don't get penalised for being too bloody clever by half.

 

[Taff]

... At our conference on Sunday it was suggest that calling "Hands away" isn't a good idea any more as the ruling means that the "fetcher" can keep hands on.

Anyone got a link to this ruling? As Donal mentioned though, perhaps the call needs to be colour specific ie "Ruck - hands away reds".

... and if a ruck is formed the arriving players don't have to come through the gate any more

Nope what i mean is the gate only exists at the tackle zone, once the tackle transitions into a ruck or maul the gate ceases to exist... e.g. Watch Jonny Wilkinson in his Falcons days, he perfected the art of getting tackled going over backwards and stretching back towards his goal line parallel to the touchline to present the ball to his team mates whilst simultaneously creating a very narrow gate for the oppo. V clever player mr wilkinson.

Now if a ruck forms say three people wide over him it is about 3x wider than the gate was.... I offer as evidence the distinct signals for offside at (scrum,) ruck or maul (No 34) joining a ruck or maul in front of back foot and from the side (no 17) vs entering tackle (zone) from wrong direction (No 12)

From reading

17.4 OFFSIDE AT THE MAUL
(c) Players joining the maul. Players joining a maul must do so from behind the foot of the hindmost team-mate in the maul. The player may join alongside this player. If the player joins the maul from the opponents’ side, or in front of the hindmost team-mate, the player is offside.

the entry point at a ruck or maul can be narrower or wider than the tackle "gate"? In my mind, they were the same ie you draw a mental box around the tackle / ruck / maul (delete as appropriate) and the players have to come in from the back.

The biggest issue is coaches and players who either have no idea that anything has changed (new jackler-third man hands-on), or got the wrong idea (e.g. hands llowed in all rucks at all times)

Sounds to me like the perfect topic to mention in the pre-match team talk. Better to discuss it in the changing rooms calmly before a game, than trying to explain it on the field when things have got a bit "heated".

Thanks for that clarification Dickie. I'd temporarily forgotten that distinction somehow. For every 3 new laws I learn, I forget 1!

A ratio of 3:1. :wow: Bloody hell, you're doing well man. What's your secret?

 

[OB..]

Anyone got a link to this ruling? As Donal mentioned though, perhaps the call needs to be colour specific ie "Ruck - hands away reds".

IRB Ruling 4 of 2009

 

[Taff]

IRB Ruling 4 of 2009

Thanks OB. :clap: