Tom Curry Yellow Card

[Gracie]

Having just watched the higlights of Eng v Ireland, I find myself thinking that this was not a YC. While it was late, so penalty, it was no later than the one in the second half on May from which Slade scored and the evidence shows the tackle was not high an there were wrapped arms.


Was it simply a case of the impact and home fan noise that made it seem worse than it seems to me?

 

[Treadmore]

Was it simply a case of the impact and home fan noise that made it seem worse than it seems to me?

I'd hate to think so but we're all human.

Garces consulted the AR (I think) and then gave the reason as use of the shoulder. But as you say, he wrapped his arm, and it wasn't high. Given he thought YC I was surprised Garces didn't check with the TMO. Like you, I thought penalty only.

The one on May (I thought deliberate obstruction not late tackle) seemed to get no mention at all on the TV coverage, nor from the AR or Garces.

 

[Flish]

I thought at first glance it was high, but shown not so penalty only. Not sure which is least bad though, that being set as the threshold for yellow and there being a card fest, or him ignoring that threshold and being inconsistent. As you say, human

 

[Andrew1974]

I thought it was marginal, one of those that will be a penalty one day, and a yellow another. Quite why some people on the BBC website think it should have been a red is beyond me

 

[crossref]

on first glance, it seemed LATE and HIGH
on watching the video it seemed LATE but not high

I was OK with the YC

did JG offer a choice of PK where the kick was taken or where it landed? I have the impression he didn't

 

[BikingBud]

I don't think he did.

 

[crossref]

I'd hate to think so but we're all human.

Garces consulted the AR (I think) and then gave the reason as use of the shoulder. .

he and the AR spoke in French. I got the impression that they were saying that the contact was to the shoulder (ie that it wasn't above the shoulder, ie it wasn't high)

but I may well have got that wrong... I have a feeling Irlandais will arrive shortly on the thread and clarify exactly what was said

 

[Treadmore]

he and the AR spoke in French. I got the impression that they were saying that the contact was to the shoulder (ie that it wasn't above the shoulder, ie it wasn't high)

but I may well have got that wrong... I have a feeling Irlandais will arrive shortly on the thread and clarify exactly what was said

when he spoke to Curry he says and indicates use of shoulder

https://youtu.be/7xph3jTNxnE?t=1327

I would be interested to know what AR said

 

[crossref]

did JG offer a choice of PK where the kick was taken or where it landed? I have the impression he didn't

re-watching, he evidently did : the PK is from where the ball landed.

 

[buff]

The AR said it was late and with the shoulder.

 

[Flish]

did JG offer a choice of PK where the kick was taken or where it landed? I have the impression he didn't

I don't recall, but he did make the mark where it landed so there may have been a conversation (or he just assumed, seen that before)

 

[Marc Wakeham]

I thought at first glance it was high, but shown not so penalty only. Not sure which is least bad though, that being set as the threshold for yellow and there being a card fest, or him ignoring that threshold and being inconsistent. As you say, human

surely , it is the threshold for a "minimum" of a YC it does not mean that a referee cannot fell that a card cannot be used for other late / dangerous (in the ref's opinion) "tackles".

 

[crossref]

For any late tackle I consider a YC

Criteria for a YC would include if it was high, or no arms , but also how late it is

 

[DocY]

I wonder if they've been instructed to clamp down on this since the Autumn.

IMO a YC was a bit harsh here. It was late, but otherwise okay and I don't think he could have really pulled out.

 

[nhughes]

On first viewing it looked like a clothes line hit but the replay showed an attempt to wrap, bit late but for me Itoje was more deserving of a card and probably would have got one if England were not a man down at the time.

CJ Stander out for a month after getting a fracture in his cheek and eye socket, luckily Ireland are well blessed with back rows but a loss none the less.

 

[Zebra1922]

I wonder if they've been instructed to clamp down on this since the Autumn.

IMO a YC was a bit harsh here. It was late, but otherwise okay and I don't think he could have really pulled out.

If he couldn't have pulled out, it wouldn't be late or a penalty. The fact everyone agrees it was late suggests he could have pulled out but chose not to.

On that basis alone I have no problem with the YC as this is cynical play designed to rough up the opposition (yes I know you get that a lot in rugby!) but in these cases the tackled player is frequently not expecting or braced for contact, or in an awkward position to fully protect themselves therefore I think they are entitled to protection from referees and the use of a YC to hopefully reduce future instances.

 

[L'irlandais]

...., bit late but for me Itoje was more deserving of a card and probably would have got one if England were not a man down at the time.

Keith Earls was taken out in the air (not a fair contest for the high ball) obviously others may interpret it differently. However, I agree Garces bottled the yellow card simply because a.n. Other English player was in the bin at that point in time. Whatever criteria he may use to determine if it was a penalty only, having Yellow carded someone on the offending team 5 minutes earlier should not be a determining factor.

For me the Tom Curry hit was late. It was also a strategic choice to rain down heavy hits on Keith Earls. Disgraceful! Targeting players may be commonplace in the game, it is not however sanctioned by the laws of the game.

 

[Rich_NL]

Keith Earls was taken out in the air (not a fair contest for the high ball) obviously others may interpret it differently.

I am never quite sure what the top level guidance is for cards resulting from air collisions. It was C&O a penalty, but WR is keen to promote players jumping aggressively so Garces may have erred on the side of not punishing the jumper.

For me the Tom Curry hit was late. It was also a strategic choice to rain down heavy hits on Keith Earls. Disgraceful! Targeting players may be commonplace in the game, it is not however sanctioned by the laws of the game.

I agree it was late, but it didn't strike me as reckless or cynical. I was mildly surprised at the card, but no more.

Targeting players is certainly not forbidden in law (I assume you mean the positive sense of sanction!) and, as long as the challenges are legal, are a perfectly normal part of play. Try telling your flankers not to pay any special mind to the opposition's mercurial #10; I can't imagine the Irish team were encouraged to treat Billy Vunipola as just another forward. The key is legal, though.

 

[crossref]

Thinking back over the game, now the dust has settled , I think Garces had an excellent game. While there are some talking points I couldnt point at a single important decision that was clearly wrong, and the game was fantastic, which must have been in part due to the way JG reffed it

I remain of the view that the RWC Final is between him and Barnes , and if neither England nor France are playing I don't think we can predict now who would get it .

Obviously I hope England will be playing !

 

[CrouchTPEngage]

Thinking back over the game, now the dust has settled , I think Garces had an excellent game. While there are some talking points I couldnt point at a single important decision that was clearly wrong, and the game was fantastic, which must have been in part due to the way JG reffed it

I remain of the view that the RWC Final is between him and Barnes , and if neither England nor France are playing I don't think we can predict now who would get it .

Obviously I hope England will be playing !

I agree he had an OK game overall. I think he for the Vunipola double-movement bang on ! Things he will probably review :
1) He didnt go upstairs to check the grounding of Ireland's try when the reply appeared to show Itoje's hand was under the ball. Maybe the AR should have spotted that one.
2) His chat with OMahony and Sinkler. He wasnt clear exactly what he wanted to happen "We are here and you are over here!". I accept that English is not his first language so forgivable but perhaps he can learn some stock phrases about "Calm down. If I see either of you messing around after the ball has gone again then I may run out of other options"
3) Why not goto TMO for that curry YC ? His AR probably told him something significant here but , as the ball had gone its always tricky to keep eyes lingering on kicker for a late charge offence. Hence get some credibilty from the TMO.
4) Some ruck offences but , hey, we all miss a load of them each game - right ?