Toulon's Romain Taofifenua cited for kicking Stuart Olding
- Thread starter Phil E
- Start date
Browner
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2012
- Messages
- 6,000
- Post Likes
- 270
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...d-for-alleged-kick-on-stuart-olding-1.1979350
Its why kicking at the ball in a ruck can be dangerous. He'll get off, claiming accidental.
Its why kicking at the ball in a ruck can be dangerous. He'll get off, claiming accidental.
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
- Messages
- 13,680
- Post Likes
- 1,760
- Current Referee grade:
- Level 2
...and I would be agreeing with him
... if that is worthy of a RC, then rugby is becoming a game for soft-cocks!
RobLev
Rugby Expert
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2011
- Messages
- 2,170
- Post Likes
- 244
- Current Referee grade:
- Select Grade
You're absolutely right, Ian. After all, being kicked in the back of the head and then raked in the face never hurt anybody.
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
- Messages
- 13,680
- Post Likes
- 1,760
- Current Referee grade:
- Level 2
I didn't say it was OK or not a PK, its just not a RC IMO. It was careless more than anything.
I would like to see RC reserved for what it was originally intended for; to punish the truly nasty & intentional acts of Foul and Dangerous Play in the game (e.g. eye-gouges, scrotum-twisting, stud-raking/stamping to the head)
For me, this was accidental contact when the player was going for the ball. It does not meet the criteria for RC, it diminishes the value of the RC and the game along with it.
If that was a RC, then so should this have been
For the record: I believe the Jones/Leonard incident was accidental
Last edited:
RobLev
Rugby Expert
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2011
- Messages
- 2,170
- Post Likes
- 244
- Current Referee grade:
- Select Grade
If I saw it as accidental, it would be a different colour card; but I suspect that the citing officer has seen it as, at best, reckless.
Stamping those out isn't going to happen if you wait until it's nailed-on before RC'ing. The miscreant will always claim it was an accident...
I suspect the citing officer believes it was deliberate, or at least reckless.
I don't accept the incidents as equivalent. The Jones/Leonard incident involved one player trying to kick a loose ball, and another trying to drop on it at the same time. It was accidental. The Taofifenua/Olding case involves a player already on the ground and the player on his feet waving his studs around in close proximity to the other player's head. It was reckless - at best.
RobLev
Rugby Expert
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2011
- Messages
- 2,170
- Post Likes
- 244
- Current Referee grade:
- Select Grade
Firstly, I'm not seeing two contacts by W7; I am only seeing Taofifenua's face rake knocking Olding's head back against W7's ankle. I think the first contact you're seeing is actually Taofifenua - he kicked the head twice, on the back of the head going out and raking the face on his return.
Secondly; there's a world of difference between putting your foot down near to, but clear of, a team-mate's head so as to keep your balance while being straightened up in the ruck by your opposite number, and (at best) recklessly striking that head, even if it was purportedly in an attempt to pull the ball back through it to your own side of the ruck.
buff
Referees in Canada
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Messages
- 422
- Post Likes
- 72
- Current Referee grade:
- Select Grade
ChrisR
Player or Coach
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2010
- Messages
- 3,231
- Post Likes
- 356
- Current Referee grade:
- Select Grade
I can't believe that he got 3 weeks for this!
I'm totally with Ian on this. Taofifenua legally gets his hands on the ball and Olding is holding on. When T. gets stood up he can't see and simply reaches for the ball. I don't rate that as a 'kick'. He's rucking for the ball, contact definitely accidental. At worst, reckless.
We (referees) let the tackled player set the ball and never penalize them for not rolling away. Then this happens and the mob calls for blood.
I'm totally with Ian on this. Taofifenua legally gets his hands on the ball and Olding is holding on. When T. gets stood up he can't see and simply reaches for the ball. I don't rate that as a 'kick'. He's rucking for the ball, contact definitely accidental. At worst, reckless.
We (referees) let the tackled player set the ball and never penalize them for not rolling away. Then this happens and the mob calls for blood.
I agree, they seem to have totally confused themselves.
Either it was accidental = no sanction at all
Or it was deliberate = very heavy sanction. What can be worse than a kick to the head?
I don't see how they possilby came up with a light sanction. Unless it was a foolish compromise between the two alternatives.
What sort of precedent does this create?
RobLev
Rugby Expert
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2011
- Messages
- 2,170
- Post Likes
- 244
- Current Referee grade:
- Select Grade
Two playes have their hands on the ball legally; Taofifenua and White #7. Olding is holding on, but that isn't why Taofifenua stands up, bringing White #7 up with him.
He stands himself up, unbalancing White #7 in the process. He might not be able to see (although I don't necessarily agree he can't) but he knows where the ball is in relation to Olding's head and still waves his foot around in that general area (at best). I'd put it as at best reckless.
Let's see how the JO saw it; it'll be here when published.
Last edited:
Browner
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2012
- Messages
- 6,000
- Post Likes
- 270
Pleased to have predicted incorrectly on this one.
Ruck kicking.....I'd rather see it outlawed.
It isn't conducive to the pushing contest "over the ball on the ground" that imagine rucking was originally intended to be.
ChrisR
Player or Coach
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2010
- Messages
- 3,231
- Post Likes
- 356
- Current Referee grade:
- Select Grade
Browner - read the "definitions" from Law 16 Ruck.
Nowhere does it mention a "pushing contest". It does mention rucking as players "using their feet to try to win or keep possession".
Your imagination has led you astray. Now read 16.3(f). Pay close attention to the word "intentionally".
Now read 16.4(d) and apply that to Olding's actions. Taofifenua is not the villain he's made out to be.
RobLev got it right, T. "waves his foot around". And for that he gets 3 weeks?
Nowhere does it mention a "pushing contest". It does mention rucking as players "using their feet to try to win or keep possession".
Your imagination has led you astray. Now read 16.3(f). Pay close attention to the word "intentionally".
Now read 16.4(d) and apply that to Olding's actions. Taofifenua is not the villain he's made out to be.
RobLev got it right, T. "waves his foot around". And for that he gets 3 weeks?
Why not? Do you really want players waving their feet around when they can't see quite where other players' heads are?