[Maul] uncontested maul

[nylluma]

Lineout, blue wins the ball and players form a "maul."

Red decides not to contest, and red 6 goes to tackle the ball carrier (below waist, no intention to bind.)

However, as he goes for the tackle, the ball is transferred to the back of the "maul", he can't see bcause of players bound, so red tackles the ex-ball carrier.

What would be the decision?

 

[crossref]

Play on ?

 

[tewdric]

It's not a maul so open play - either play on or penalty for obstruction depending on the specific situation.

 

[Decorily]

Sounds more like an accidental off side ... scrum.

 

[Rich_NL]

Accidental offside, scrum red.

Red wouldn't have committed an offence if blue hadn't already passed the ball back.

 

[Dickie E]

I suspect that red 6 has then caused the muckle to go to ground and ball has become unplayable. If so, Blue going forward, Blue scrum. Otherwise, just play on.

 

[crossref]

It's very common indeed for the ball carrier to pass the ball just before being tackled .. that's not an offence

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Sounds more like an accidental off side ... scrum.

Agree. You can't hand the ball back without creating an obstruction. Unless a maul is already formed. Not time to call "use it" so treat as accidental. Scrum to Red.

 

[Flish]

“Use it now” if you spot what’s happening quickly enough, else scrum red for accidental offside - that was my instruction at least

 

[tewdric]

Got me wondering when the lineout ends in this scenario too. It may not be open play.

 

[OB..]

“Use it now” if you spot what’s happening quickly enough, else scrum red for accidental offside - that was my instruction at least

[LAWS]18.37

• The lineout ends when:
  • The ball or a player in possession of the ball:
    • leaves the lineout; or [...]

[/LAWS]

 

[tewdric]

Yes I know what the law says it is the interpretaion - if blue form their side of a maul on the line of touch has the ball carrier left the lineout?

 

[OB..]

Yes I know what the law says it is the interpretaion - if blue form their side of a maul on the line of touch has the ball carrier left the lineout?

What alternative interpretations are you aware of?

 

[crossref]

“Use it now” if you spot what’s happening quickly enough, else scrum red for accidental offside - that was my instruction at least

You should only sanction blue for accidental offside if rhey begin to move forwards

The whole point of reds strategy is to get blue penalised , that's negative play and we are trying to make sure that's not too easy for them .

It's hard to say what to do in the OP without seeing it, but I would trying to play on .. with a call of use it as well to get the nal out

 

[beckett50]

It's not a maul so open play - either play on or penalty for obstruction depending on the specific situation.

Unless the ball has left the line of touch then the line out still exists and the off-side lines are still extant; so it is not open play.

As the OP describes for me it is down to timing. With this explanation I presuming that the catcher is still at the front of his teammates that have bound onto him.

Questions to ask:
1. Is the ball passed directly to the hindmost player? - in which case this is a 'long arm' transfer and so illegal and to be penalised
2. Did Red #6 tackle the ball carrier as the ball is passed back?
3. How much of delay was there from the ball being passed back and the tackle happening?
4. Did the player who received the ball stay bound or did they break away?
5. Have you made any verbal call regarding "No engage"?

At best it is "play on" at worst it a PK to Red (if answer is #1)

 

[crossref]

"?

At best it is "play on" at worst it a PK to Red (if answer is #1)

I think a long arm pass is only illegal in a maul, and here there there was no maul.

 

[beckett50]

I think a long arm pass is only illegal in a maul, and here there there was no maul.

A long arm pass is illegal at this phase of play as it prevents the opposition from competing for ball.

Remember the opposition cannot come round and compete because the line-out is not over and were they so to do they would be penalised for a 'through the line' offence. WR brought this Law in to keep some semblance of competition at this phase of play.

 

[Decorily]

I think a long arm pass is only illegal in a maul, and here there there was no maul.

No. A long arm pass can often be made before a maul is formed, it is often made even before the jumper comes back to the ground it is illegal either way provided there is obstruction involved and the ball ripper/reliever is not in contact with the 'passer'.

In fact once the maul has been formed there would be nothing wrong with the long arm pass.

 

[Decorily]

Unless the ball has left the line of touch then the line out still exists and the off-side lines are still extant; so it is not open play.

As the OP describes for me it is down to timing. With this explanation I presuming that the catcher is still at the front of his teammates that have bound onto him.

Questions to ask:
1. Is the ball passed directly to the hindmost player? - in which case this is a 'long arm' transfer and so illegal and to be penalised
2. Did Red #6 tackle the ball carrier as the ball is passed back?
3. How much of delay was there from the ball being passed back and the tackle happening?
4. Did the player who received the ball stay bound or did they break away?
5. Have you made any verbal call regarding "No engage"?

At best it is "play on" at worst it a PK to Red (if answer is #1)

Judging by the wording of the OP the ball was passed before the tackle was attempted.

 

[mcroker]

IRB (as it was then) issues a law clarfication 2014 covering non engagement in a maul following a lineout. Can't find it on the WR site, but this is what we have on our soc. website.

[laws]IRB clarification for teams choosing not to engage at the lineout
• if the defenders in the line out choose to not engage the line out drive by leaving the line out as a group, PK to attacking team;
• if the defenders in the line out choose to not engage the line out drive by simply opening up a gap and creating space and not leaving the line out, the following process would be followed:

• attackers would need to keep the ball with the front player, if they were to drive down-field (therefore play on, general play - defenders could either engage to form a maul, or tackle the ball carrier only);
• if they had immediately passed it back to the player at the rear of the group, the referee would tell them to use it which they must do immediately...
• if they drove forward with the ball at the back (did not release the ball), the referee would award a scrum for accidental offside rather than PK for obstruction.[/laws]