[Scrum] Uncontested scrums # 8 pickup

[JohnP]

Clarification, is the above allowed?

 

[Pegleg]

Yes!


Urban myth #1000001

 

[didds]

why wouldn't it be?

didds

 

[SimonSmith]

Because London Society, that's why.

 

[Pegleg]

Because London Society, that's why.

Can you enlighten us?

 

[Taff]

Yes! Urban myth #1000001

I get asked this nearly every time we go uncontested. It is a VERY widely held myth.

 

[L'irlandais]

Agree with Taff.
Didn't quite make the RRF Wiki's myth list, but widely believed.

RRF Wiki's myth list
1. You must let a player on the ground up. [laws]14.2 or 15.7 Forbidden practices[/laws]
2. Can't take the second penalty quickly. [laws]21.7 What the opposing team must do at a penalty kick (d)[/laws]. + 21.8 where Free Kicks are concerned

3. Player on their feet in a ruck can play the ball with their hands. [laws]law 16.4 Other ruck offenses (b)[/laws]
4. The referee must stop the game for injuries. [laws]Law 5.4 (a) Injury[/laws]
5. The ball is out when the player has their hands on it. [laws]Law 16.5 offside at the ruck.[/laws]
6. A Kick-off or restart must travel 10m in the air. [laws]Law 13.6 Kick-off of under 10 metres but played by an opponent[/laws]
7. You can ruck a player providing the studs are going backwards. [laws]Law 16.3(f) rucking[/laws]

Law references are my suggestions, feel free to correct them if you think I am mistaken.

8. Number 8 must not pick the ball from the base of an uncontested scrum. [laws]Law 3.6 Uncontested scrums[/laws] doesn't disallow it, so it is presumably allowed.

Other myths which might make the top 10 :
9. No offside in-goal. [laws] Law 22.16 infringements in-goal[/laws]
10. Your own favourite here...

 

[Pegleg]

I get asked this nearly every time we go uncontested. It is a VERY widely held myth.

Agreed. little knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[Camquin]

I get asked it when I do a girls match. Again it is not mentioned in U19 variations or in the RFU Girls regulations. so as far as I am aware perfectly legal, but coaches want to check.

Now in 10s there is a specific ban on anyone unbinding, but there you only have front row and two locks.Very hard to clearly be hindmost foot as a lock, so if a scrum got reduced to 5 due to numbers, which happens more in age group games when you are playing with 13 a side, I would say it is not possible.

 

[SimonSmith]

Because way back in the mists of time, when uncontested scrubs became a thing, London unilaterally decided that the 8 pickup was not allowed. That's why I pin the blame on them

 

[L'irlandais]

Underage rugby here in France, some clubs compete in a 12 a side version of the game.
This has 6v 6 man scrums. The #8 (if the back row can be called that) is still authorized to pick the ball at the back. However if they are a man down then in a 5 v 5 scrum it is specifically not allowed to pick the ball from the base of the scrum.
[laws]3.5 - Mêlée ordonnée

6 joueurs maximum :
- 3 en première ligne,

- 2 en deuxième ligne,

- 1 en troisième ligne entre les deux secondes lignes.
Les règles I.R.B. des « moins de 19 ans » ainsi que les dispositions spécifiques F.F.R. applicables à la mêlée (voir dernier chapitre de la Règle

20) pour les catégories C et D doivent s’appliquer.
Le dernier joueur de la mêlée (3ème ligne centre) peut ramasser le ballon
dans ses pieds, uniquement quand la mêlée est complète en formation 3-

2-1.
Quand, pour une raison quelconque, une équipe est réduite à moins de 12 joueurs, le nombre de joueurs de chaque équipe participant à la mêlée doit toujours être de 5 et la formation de la mêlée sera 3-2. Attention : Il ne peut jamais y avoir moins de 5 joueurs en mêlée ordonnée.

Toutefois, si au cours d’un match, suite à une blessure ou à une exclusion, une équipe se trouve dans l’incapacité d’aligner trois joueurs autorisés à jouer en 1ère ligne, l’arbitre doit ordonner des mêlées simulées telles que définies par les Règles du jeu.

Dans le cas d’une exclusion temporaire ou d’un saignement d’un joueur de 1ère ligne, cette disposition ne s’appliquera que pour la durée de ladite exclusion ou de la sortie temporaire pour saignement dudit joueur.[/laws]

Source : https://www.ffr.fr/Au-coeur-du-jeu/Arbitrer/Regles-du-jeu2

 

[Pegleg]

Because way back in the mists of time, when uncontested scrubs became a thing, London unilaterally decided that the 8 pickup was not allowed. That's why I pin the blame on them

Thank you. I think we can safely ignore them.

 

[crossref]

Because way back in the mists of time, when uncontested scrubs became a thing, London unilaterally decided that the 8 pickup was not allowed. That's why I pin the blame on them

i think this is urban myth #00002

 

[didds]

I got asked/told this this afternoon! ie uncontested #8 pick up.

I did disavow them of the claim...

didds

 

[SimonSmith]

i think this is urban myth #00002

Au contraire, mon brave. Someone from London back in the mists of time will back it up - but for those of refereeing since the mid 90s....we were there, man. Hampshire were clear: 8 pickups allowed. London, on the other hand...

 

[peperami]

Asked this so often, I now offer the information when we go uncontested, usually to the great glee of the 8s who then spend the entire time picking up from the base of the scrum.

 

[CrouchTPEngage]

Agree with Taff.
Didn't quite make the RRF Wiki's myth list, but widely believed.

RRF Wiki's myth list
1. You must let a player on the ground up. [laws]14.2 or 15.7 Forbidden practices[/laws]
2. Can't take the second penalty quickly. [laws]21.7 What the opposing team must do at a penalty kick (d)[/laws]. + 21.8 where Free Kicks are concerned

3. Player on their feet in a ruck can play the ball with their hands. [laws]law 16.4 Other ruck offenses (b)[/laws]
4. The referee must stop the game for injuries. [laws]Law 5.4 (a) Injury[/laws]
5. The ball is out when the player has their hands on it. [laws]Law 16.5 offside at the ruck.[/laws]
6. A Kick-off or restart must travel 10m in the air. [laws]Law 13.6 Kick-off of under 10 metres but played by an opponent[/laws]
7. You can ruck a player providing the studs are going backwards. [laws]Law 16.3(f) rucking[/laws]

Law references are my suggestions, feel free to correct them if you think I am mistaken.

8. Number 8 must not pick the ball from the base of an uncontested scrum. [laws]Law 3.6 Uncontested scrums[/laws] doesn't disallow it, so it is presumably allowed.

Other myths which might make the top 10 :
9. No offside in-goal. [laws] Law 22.16 infringements in-goal[/laws]
10. Your own favourite here...

Surely the one about "You can stop a Quick Throw in by "marking" the line-of touch by getting 2 players there" must be in there ?
Almost every week I see 2 players run up to the line-of touch to "form" a line-out.
From other posts here , apparently, that does not prevent the thrower from taking a QT.

 

[Nigib]

Surely the one about "You can stop a Quick Throw in by "marking" the line-of touch by getting 2 players there" must be in there ?
Almost every week I see 2 players run up to the line-of touch to "form" a line-out.
From other posts here , apparently, that does not prevent the thrower from taking a QT.

You need a at least two players from each side, between the 5 and 15, to form a lineout. Can't have a QTI once the lineout has formed; so yes, a myth accepted by all the teams I've reffed that once two (one sometimes) is there they can't take a QTI