USA Rugby National Development Summit

[RobLev]

USA have elected to not do this at any level lower than International. Part of their positioning IIRC is that a "trained healthcare person" should be a neurologist or similar, not Jimmy The Trainer

OK; I apologise - I misunderstood your comment then (and I think so did Marauder). As I now understand you: for internationals it's assessment plus temporary replacement, whereas below that it's "any indication of concussion = end of match for the player concerned", and any replacement is therefore permanent.

I can see a problem there. The whole concept only gives the lower level players proper protection if the precautionary principle is applied - ie any doubt player goes off; whereas coaches at lower levels will argue that unless there are clear indications of concussion (and who's the referee to gainsay his qualified team doctor/physio?) he should stay on. That particularly applies the further up the rankings the concept extends, since there is more riding on the match; and USAR's position applies that to the very highest levels of USA domestic rugby.

 

[ChrisR]

I don't think that is correct, but I would like Dave to report on:

a. The USA Rugby position on their protocol for pitch side concussion assessment,

b. How they view SRO (State Rugby Orgs.) standards for this. Our Virginia SRO (that runs all youth rugby in the state) has stringent requirements for medical staff at matches. Our club (Culpeper) had two medicos, an EMT and a pediatrician, both trained on impact injuries which included concussions, at every home match.

 

[chrismtl]

I don't understand why they wouldn't run this at the same time as the LVI/SWS. There's going to be tons of refs, coaches and players already going to that, it's a pretty affordable destination, and quite a bit more fun than Chicago in January. Plus, I'm sure that if you ran it the week before the tournament (Wednesday-Friday), you'd probably be able to get one of the SWS refs to speak as well. At the end of the day this is a 1 day conference that USAR has decided to spread over 3 days.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

I don't think that is correct, but I would like Dave to report on:

a. The USA Rugby position on their protocol for pitch side concussion assessment,

b. How they view SRO (State Rugby Orgs.) standards for this. Our Virginia SRO (that runs all youth rugby in the state) has stringent requirements for medical staff at matches. Our club (Culpeper) had two medicos, an EMT and a pediatrician, both trained on impact injuries which included concussions, at every home match.

Will report back on what I find out. One thing I know is that I have officiated in a number of IRB/WR matches where the IRB/WR Match Commissioner has determined that there will be no HIA protocol since there will be no IRB/WR-trained medical professional present. The presence of numerous doctors (including, on at least one occasion, a consultant neurologist) has not enabled application of the HIA because the relevant medical professional did not hold the relevant IRB/WR certificate.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

I don't understand why they wouldn't run this at the same time as the LVI/SWS. There's going to be tons of refs, coaches and players already going to that, it's a pretty affordable destination, and quite a bit more fun than Chicago in January. Plus, I'm sure that if you ran it the week before the tournament (Wednesday-Friday), you'd probably be able to get one of the SWS refs to speak as well. At the end of the day this is a 1 day conference that USAR has decided to spread over 3 days.

Agree that it is effectively a one day conference. I am arriving late Friday and departing early Sunday prior to the Sunday morning sessions. I suspect that running it in the days before the LVI/SWS might be difficult as those days are likely to be week days and so reduce attendance. I don't know, though - it's just a thought.

 

[chrismtl]

Agree that it is effectively a one day conference. I am arriving late Friday and departing early Sunday prior to the Sunday morning sessions. I suspect that running it in the days before the LVI/SWS might be difficult as those days are likely to be week days and so reduce attendance. I don't know, though - it's just a thought.

I'm assuming it's because it's a stand alone event that they want to be run by itself. That being said, this forum is the first (and only) place I heard of the event. I know I don't live in the US, but I'm registered with the NCCP as a coach and I'm also a referee. Plus, I planned my trip to go to Vegas to watch the SWS pretty much after I got back from the SWS last year, and I had flights and hotels booked for about 2-3 months now and bought my tournament tickets 5+ months ago. The case might be different for slightly older professionals, but for a 24 yr old student, I don't have the money to go on 2 big expense rugby trips every year, and an international rugby tournament in Vegas is by far a bigger draw than Chicago for a 1 day conference.

 

[mark.lucas]

... whereas coaches at lower levels will argue that unless there are clear indications of concussion (and who's the referee to gainsay his qualified team doctor/physio?) he should stay on. ...

I'm only just beginning to referee here in the USA having recently moved from the UK, but I will gainsay anybody if I believe there is an issue. That is part of the referee's job / responsibility.

OK I have been a trained first-aider all my adult life, but the mantra of "If in doubt, sit them out." has to be the right one, and indeed I had to take an on-line course on this in order to be approved by USA Rugby as a coach.

 

[RobLev]

I'm only just beginning to referee here in the USA having recently moved from the UK, but I will gainsay anybody if I believe there is an issue. That is part of the referee's job / responsibility.

I entirely agree - but the coach won't see it that way...

OK I have been a trained first-aider all my adult life, but the mantra of "If in doubt, sit them out." has to be the right one, and indeed I had to take an on-line course on this in order to be approved by USA Rugby as a coach.