WAL v IRE - Two Decisions

[belladonna]

In this clip, doesn't green 12 have to release red 15 when they hit the ground, rather than holding on and rolling him into touch while himself being on the ground?

And in this one, isn't this actually green playing the ball on the ground rather than red 15 knocking on?

 

[Decorily]

1 Momentum
Tackler cannot be realistically expected to release immediately in a dynamic situation.
2 probably is off green hand but clearly wasn't spotted by referee.

 

[Zebra1922]

1. Yes, this should be penalised more often
2. No idea, I’ve watched that a few times and can’t figure out if it’s a knock on or something else happened. Go with whatever the ref decided.

 

[crossref]

1 yes.
13.3 was new in the rewrite and was a introduced effectively by stealth (because of the 'nothing has changed' mantra) . It has taken a long time to really sink in .
2 can't tell

 

[Jarrod Burton]

1. I'd say he held on and rolled him into touch so yes for me - but you won't see it called outside of grassroots unless its reminiscent of Gordon Tallis' rag-dolling of Hodges in the SOO in the 90's.
2. Was the Jackler supporting their own weight? I don't think he was honestly. His body shape was very long, we was on his knees momentarily before the jackle attempt and he had his left arm on the floor just prior to attempting the pickup.

 

[Stu10]

1 yes.
13.3 was new in the rewrite and was a introduced effectively by stealth (because of the 'nothing has changed' mantra) . It has taken a long time to really sink in .
2 can't tell

1) I think this is OK because the tackle and subsequent roll are all one motion, and I don't feel he has held the ball carrier any longer compared to a similar tackle in the middle of the FOP.

@crossref which aspect of Law 13.3 do you think the tackler has contravened?

2) Hard to say, but I can accept the on-field decision.

 

[crossref]

@crossref which aspect of Law 13.3 do you think the tackler has contravened?

i thought (from that clip, which isn't great) that he broke two laws

- first offence: as tackler he didn't release

or if he did release him, and then grabbed him again he breaks 13.3.c

 

[Stu10]

I think it would be very harsh to say he didn't release the tackled man... when you make a tackle and you are still in motion/momentum, you don't release the player the microsecond his knee touches the ground. Would this even be a discussion point if the exact same tackle happened away from the touchline?

It was all part of the tackle, definitely not a situation of having released and then grabbed again.

 

[crossref]

it's tricky to be entirely sure, but I see him as making a tackle ........ and then rolling him into touch . Two actions.

but in real time happy with any ref seeing it differently.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I'm okish with the first.

2nd one I think green is playing it back after LW gets his hands on it but is LW getting a credible lift on it or just pulling it into green? It does ping out quickly though!

Neither C&O for me. In fact I might have just played on for the 2nd one.

 

[number11]

Looking at the second using YouTube's slow motion feature (settings > playback speed) it's clear that it was played back by green.

 

[Rich_NL]

First one is on the edge, but within the law for me.

The second one I agree looks to be green playing with slowed down repeats of the video, but would I think be given as KO by red in almost any practical situation. That ruck's a complete mess and you could probably call anything

 

[menace]

it's tricky to be entirely sure, but I see him as making a tackle ........ and then rolling him into touch . Two actions.

but in real time happy with any ref seeing it differently.

I think if you're calling that a PK then you're going to make it tough for yourself on other areas where "immediately" is required.

1. Call is fine, IMO.

2. What's is the clear and obvious optics there? Red hands on ball momentarily...ball then spits forward! Looks like a duck...walks like a duck then probably is one.(99.9% of those watching are seeing that. You'd be a brave ref to call to be the only person that saw the sneaky green hand.)

 

[Volun-selected]

Squidge does (yet another) great job breaking this game down - his observation is that Ireland played understanding how that particular ref manages their game and did numerous just-slightly-illegal-but-not-too-blatant offenses that gave them an edge and the ref would likely overlook/miss.

@belladonna - if you spool the video to about 09:15 he calls out the same play in your 2nd clip as a specific example.

Cynical, clever, or just elite gameplay? Take your choice.

 

[belladonna]

Thanks everyone for the many and varied replies! Great shout about squidge @Volun-selected - as he says, Ireland played on the edge, and I suppose good for them if they managed to milk a few decisions. Wales turned the tables after half time by doing exactly the same thing! Re #2 he makes a good point that green had nothing to lose and was about to get pinged anyway for holding on, so nothing to lose. The speed of the ball shooting out of the ruck did make me wonder (and yes with the benefit of replays/slow-mo it's clear green played it) but sounds like no ref is going to call that in real life. C'est la vie and on to round 2!