[6N] Wales vs France 3rd Welsh try - Knock on?

[Zebra1922]

The third welsh try was an interception by George North, where he initially knocked the ball up and forward with an outstretched right arm before gathering and sprinting through to score.

Any thoughts this could be considered a deliberate knock-on? And if this one isn't, what scenario would lead to a deliberate knock on if you recover the ball?

 

[Arturas]

In my opinion player does not get any advantage of this, so no forward.

I do not understant why first try was cancelled: the ball went back on the ground, so why no try? Later the ball was between the hand and body, but it was in control.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

For me (with Welsh colours nailed on)



The First "try" was correctly ruled out. Williams lost the ball and it probably went forward. The fact he sli forward makes it look like it has gone back. Tough on him. He chose the wrong option and almost did not get there at all.

Northd interception was fine He did not knock it over a player (tactically). It was good skill. And it shows for me that many refs are wrong when similar efforts fail, because refs will rule that a deliberate when they do fail. One handed interceptions are NOT illegal.

Odd game, France do seem out of sorts. Good for Wales to get an "ugly win" out of the way.

 

[Rich_NL]

I can't imagine any professional ref giving that as a penalty. It wasn't killing the pass, it was an interception with a very good chance of regathering the ball. It would have to be much more speculative to be C&O deliberate, for me. Leaping, tapping with the fingertips, getting a lucky bounce upwards off that and somehow regathering, maybe. IIRC there was a good example in the Autumn internationals (Australia? Or maybe SA)

Arturas, if the player is carrying the ball they have to be in control of it all the way to the ground to score a try. If the ball is lying in in-goal you can dive on it and score with your body. Red 15 lost his grip before it hit the ground, then it touched the ground, then he pressed it, so it's a knock on.

 

[Arturas]

I agree that he lost the ball, but does it went forward? In the view I saw it went back on the ground. Why it is forward then? The same in this case has to be ruled situation if the played would give pass back and ball first touch the ground and after it would be taken by his teammate. Where is the fact forward?

 

[crossref]

It was very similar to incident at Worcester a few weeks ago where the TMO awarded a try , on the grounds it went backward

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?21192-21-1-b-grounding-the-ball&highlight=Ugo+monye

I thought this one did go forward, but perhaps WB should have asked the TMO to look carefully at that

 

[Rich_NL]

A pass backward is judged relative to the players, a knock on is relative to the ground. I think it went forward.

 

[Taff]

I agree that he lost the ball, but does it went forward? In the view I saw it went back on the ground. Why it is forward then?

Physics. Williams was going forward so the ball must have been going forward.

It may have looked backwards because Williams was going forward at a faster rate.

 

[ChrisR]

This one for OB.

In this match a player attempts a punt but is tackled such that the ball goes forward to ground from his hand. Ruled a KO.

OB frequently references the act of throwing the ball forward for a kick is not a throw forward but what happened is the kick never happened.

So . . . I'm thinking: Should that really be called a KO?

 

[Zebra1922]

No.

im just trying to establish if we ever would come across a scenario where a juggled/knocker forward and recovered interception would ever be a knock on.

 

[taff426]

I think this article sums this conundrum up...

https://rugby365.com/laws-referees/law-discussions/rugby-and-applying-its-laws

Whilst I can see the arguement, and it’s merits, personally, I look for the “positive” effect. Was the player being positive? Yes? Play on, no? FK/PK as necessary to the offence.

Clearly that premise doesn’t work with everything, however, in this instance, I believe it holds ground.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

This one for OB.

In this match a player attempts a punt but is tackled such that the ball goes forward to ground from his hand. Ruled a KO.

OB frequently references the act of throwing the ball forward for a kick is not a throw forward but what happened is the kick never happened.

So . . . I'm thinking: Should that really be called a KO?

This one has been discussed before and the view was as the kick was not successfully made the ball it becomes a knock on.