[Law] Wasps Flying Wedge ?

[DocY]

I think pre binding and running in open play should be outlawed. It's Only a matter of time before one player gets seriously hurt trying to stop 3 or more

I disagree, TBH. I think it's adequately covered as generic dangerous play.

Pre binding is something you see in nearly every game and I can't recall any injuries caused by it.

 

[didds]

I think pre binding and running in open play should be outlawed. It's Only a matter of time before one player gets seriously hurt trying to stop 3 or more

I don't disagree... but binding immediately post contact is hardly any different. I don't think a ban on pre-binding could necessarily stop such approaches

didds

 

[Nigib]

I disagree, TBH. I think it's adequately covered as generic dangerous play.

Pre binding is something you see in nearly every game and I can't recall any injuries caused by it.

Thanks all - great discussion. I think there's a difference in the consequence of pre-binding, depending on where it happens. So, a pick'n'go off the back of a ruck will have far less momentum (and is implicitly less dangerous) than a pass back 5/6m, which gives the prebound 3 enough space to gain sufficient speed to flatten the opposition. The latter seemed to be the tactic Wasps employed time after time in the last ten mins of the match. It's that distance between starting point and hit that gave rise to the FW law in the first place, because it was deemed dangerous.

What would I do if it happened in a game I was refereeing? Once, I'd probably let it go. If it happened again quickly, I'd likely have a conversation at the next stoppage to manage it. If I saw it as dangerous at any point, then I would ping it anyway.

 

[ChuckieB]

I don't disagree... but binding immediately post contact is hardly any different. I don't think a ban on pre-binding could necessarily stop such approaches

didds

As a non medical expert, I can buy into the science and empirical evidence associated with incidences of CTE which seem to have been identified in athletes who were exposed to repeated and significant subconcussive hits including those at relatively close proximity, such as at the line of scrimmage in NFL. Short distances in effect.

Reducing the risks around the initial contact point must be a course of action. Not only in consideration of the risk of immediate injury but also the long term reduction of risk. Prebinding comes under that umbrella (as would clear out techniques at rucks, in my view).

We managed without it didn't we?

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Did anyone on here get coached to pre bind as a player?
Never came across it in my whole career and don't really see it at my level.
I wonder when it became "the thing to do" at the top level?

 

[DocY]

Did anyone on here get coached to pre bind as a player?
Never came across it in my whole career and don't really see it at my level.
I wonder when it became "the thing to do" at the top level?

Yeah, but only in my last few playing years (from about 2005 IIRC). That was with a coach who was very keen on driving mauls and thought this was a good way of setting them up. I don't know if it was a common thing. I don't remember any opponents doing it, but I didn't pay much attention to that sort of thing as a player.

 

[Paule23]

Did anyone on here get coached to pre bind as a player?
Never came across it in my whole career and don't really see it at my level.
I wonder when it became "the thing to do" at the top level?

Yes, I was coached to grab a player who is going into contact, don't let them go into contact on their own.

 

[Nigib]

Yes, I was coached to grab a player who is going into contact, don't let them go into contact on their own.

but just before contact, rather than on receiving the ball and several metres from an opponent?

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Did anyone on here get coached to pre bind as a player?
Never came across it in my whole career and don't really see it at my level.
I wonder when it became "the thing to do" at the top level?

Yep, well kinda. At rucks we used to practice ad nauseam binding before arriving at ruck in groups of 2 or 3. Time spent practicing never amounted to few time it actually achieved in game. Never a group of 3 in a game either, but we sure practiced it.

We also had static wedge formed at PK or FK. Advancing only after some poor sap decided to make contact with it. It usually worked, occassionally we have an opponent who would spend the first half trying to get his teammates not approach it. Rarely did teammates understand even after a halftime explanation from poor frustrated teammate.

 

[ChrisR]

I think pre-binding on a ball carrier should be prohibited. The game works just fine without it (pre-binding).

One of my concerns is that a would be tackler now has twice the body mass and kinetic energy to deal with.

Another is if the tackler is coming in from the side, and the binder is on that side, then the tackler has no safe place to put his head.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

I think pre-binding on a ball carrier should be prohibited. The game works just fine without it (pre-binding).

One of my concerns is that a would be tackler now has twice the body mass and kinetic energy to deal with.

Another is if the tackler is coming in from the side, and the binder is on that side, then the tackler has no safe place to put his head.

My initial thought is solid agreement. But along will come some unintended consequences, such as: Are not lifters in L/O bound to a ball carrier? or Can tacklers be bound together (Samoa did this in one world cup with TrevorL and Pat Lam)?

The coaches will find some way to exploit a no binding law. Maybe just hand grasping the ball carriers shorts and lifting ball carrier over the tackler. Silly, but who knows.


"The path of good intentions has potholes a.k.a. rugby coaches, the biggest ******s known to mankind."

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Oh my, Wan kers is **** out. Can I still post masterbaiters?

Perfect example of good intentions gone awry.

 

[Pinky]

Another is if the tackler is coming in from the side, and the binder is on that side, then the tackler has no safe place to put his head.

The binder on the side of the tackler is obstructing the tackler and could be penalised.

 

[didds]

The binder on the side of the tackler is obstructing the tackler and could be penalised.

we've been here before.

if tha tacker is coming from "behind" the ball carrier can a teammate of the BC obstruct in general play as a rule if said teammate is not offside ?

didds

 

[Rich_NL]

I haven't yet seen anything dangerous in prebound crash balls off a ruck, or grabbing a running teammate just before a tackle. I don't think a blanket ban will do much for safety (since we already have dangerous play and flying wedge) and will add a lot of borderline calls to make.

I have blown up for cavalry charge, and it's something I often see not being pinged. I'll talk to the society.