What are Black 15's options?

[ChrisR]

From Oz vs. NZ 1st game 2017

https://youtu.be/xlm5MZSHjmo?t=1236

Referee: "You've got the man not the ball. Let him play the ball"

Did Black 15 violate 14.2 (falling over the player on the ground with the ball) or was he on his feet trying to get the ball?

Did Black 15 have to let him play the ball?

We've been here before but what a great discussion example. What are the odds we all agree? Zero. How could the law be changed (if at all) to remove the ambiguity?

 

[didds]

well black 15 was lets just say poor... he slid and slipped and flapped all around Gold 9 never looking for some time as if he was aiming for the ball. In many ways I am sure he was - he just did it very ineptly.

fair shout by WB. B15, just get it better next time. Play the ball, not the man.

didds

 

[OB..]

law 15 specifically says:[LAWS]15.7
(a)No player may prevent the tackled player from passing the ball.

(b)No player may prevent the tackled player from releasing the ball and getting up or moving away from it.[/LAWS]

Since the tackled player is allowed to pass or place the ball, I have always taken these paragraphs to mean that you cannot play the man to prevent a pass, but you can play the ball (in which case he must release).

It would seem sensible to take the same line for Law 14.

 

[Dickie E]

the complication with this one was the Gold player went into squeezeball position which makes playing the ball difficult for the Black player

 

[Ian_Cook]

the complication with this one was the Gold player went into squeezeball position which makes playing the ball difficult for the Black player

I have to say I was surprised the PK went the way it did. It was clear that Gold 9 was doing everything he could to make it impossible for anyone to get the ball off him.

[LAWS]Law 14.1 (c) A player without the ball must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents getting possession of it.
Sanction: Penalty kick [/LAWS]

Again very badly worded. What are they talking about here...

a. the original player who went to ground to gather the ball, or
b. a player who already did so, but never got his hands on the ball?

 

[Thunderhorse1986]

Why does Barnes not just call Black 15 for being off feet?

His knees both appear to touch the ground, certainly his right hand does, and the rest of his weight is being put through the player on the floor - it really doesn't look like he is "supporting his own body weight". Even if you disagree with that assessment of what was happening, at least that decision would have a clear grounding in law.

This is one of the issues with "over communication" - I think it's a good thing referees aim to communicate more - but if you end up saying things which have no clear basis in law then it only creates confusion.

 

[irishref]

Stupid from black 15 - if he goes in and simply grabs the ball whilst staying on his feet - the so-called jackal position - he'll either get the ball or the PK.

 

[didds]

... or rather than flapping around just steadies himself, puts his arms around/past the gold 9 and near the ball and makes a lot of noise about gimme the ball! gimme the ball! release! you gotta release! etc.

didds