What would you have done?

[taff426]

Gents, would like to double check myself and my reaction today.

Home team, have a full squad, massively favourites for the game, away team have just about managed to scrape a minimum 15.

Anyway, as you can imagine its one way traffic, with one particular individual from the away team becoming a tad chopsy and vocally challenging nearly every decision I give (approx 45 mins in). I spoke to the Capt. During some down time, but still the player continues to harp on at me.

I gave a decision against his team for a high (after apparently missing a late hit behind my back). He again shouts out at me. I blow my whistle and call time off and call the Capt and player in question over. I attempt to state that as is his team are having a torrid enough time of it as it is with the bare 15, the last thing his team needs would be to play 14 against 15 when he interrupted me by saying 15 against 16.

My immediate reaction was :norc: however, I decided as his team were getting royally humped, I would show him a :noyc: and show him a bit of empathy and try to manage the situation.

Wouild any of you have handled the situation differently?

 

[Phil E]

:norc:

 

[colesy]

I think this might be one of those situations where your call would be for the ultimate benefit of next week's ref who might not be as thick skinned as you - RC for me. He's calling you biased and/or a cheat. He's limited your options and it's his own fault.

 

[winchesterref]

I think this might be one of those situations where your call would be for the ultimate benefit of next week's ref who might not be as thick skinned as you - RC for me. He's calling you biased and/or a cheat. He's limited your options and it's his own fault.

This, but I still seem to err on the side of yellow for these at the moment, something I am still trying to get round in my head!

 

[Browner]

Gents, would like to double check myself and my reaction today.

Home team, have a full squad, massively favourites for the game, away team have just about managed to scrape a minimum 15.

Anyway, as you can imagine its one way traffic, with one particular individual from the away team becoming a tad chopsy and vocally challenging nearly every decision I give (approx 45 mins in). I spoke to the Capt. During some down time, but still the player continues to harp on at me. 1] This is the time to call captain & player in for Final warning

I gave a decision against his team for a high (after apparently missing a late hit behind my back). He again shouts out at me. 2] This becomes his :yellow: I blow my whistle and call time off and call the Capt and player in question over. I attempt to state that as is his team are having a torrid enough time of it as it is with the bare 15, the last thing his team needs would be to play 14 against 15 when - he interrupted me by saying 15 against 16. & this becomes :rc:

My immediate reaction was :norc: however, I decided as his team were getting royally humped, I would show him a :noyc: and show him a bit of empathy and try to manage the situation.

Wouild any of you have handled the situation differently?

Although your empathy is kinda understandable.

 

[OB..]

You did not do him any favours. He now thinks he can afford to make such comments. It is possible that even a Red Card would not make him change his approach, but you owe it to the ref next time he plays.

 

[talbazar]

I understand your emphaty indeed... And like you my initial reaction would probably have been RC.

The question I have is:
What happened when he got back on the pitch? Had he calm down?
In other words, did it work?

 

[taff426]

It seemed to do the trick, he apologised as soon as he came back on, and was silent for the remainder of the game

 

[Daftmedic]

Would giving him a bitch slap across the face count as a sanction?
But I agree red would of been my preferred colour of choice.

 

[talbazar]

It seemed to do the trick, he apologised as soon as he came back on, and was silent for the remainder of the game

Then it probably was the good decision. Or at least a good enough decision...

 

[Waspsfan]

I think it is good to reflect on these kind of things and use them as an opportunity for development. I think there are two issues here for you to consider.

1) The 16 man remark, red or yellow? I think there is an argument for either, and i wouldn't worry too much about giving a yellow.

2) Why did you end up in this position? Could you have done anything to prevent it? Here I would argue yes you could. You say that he was continously arguing and questioning decisions and yet your response was a quiet word at downtime with the skipper. For me this was not good management. For me, first questioning comment or remark is time off, captain's to me and make a big deal out of it. Loudly state you won't tolerate it and the next comment or remark is a penalty. When another one comes, penalty. Explain again loudly, i warned you that I wouldn't tolerate this, with lots of dissent secondary signals. At this stage every player, spectator knows what is going on. If comment three comes, yellow card and i guarantee that not a single person in the ground will be angry at you. Everyone will blame the player. Just some advice.

 

[winchesterref]

Good post. I had 2 in the bin for dissent yesterday, opposite teams, got a handle on it eventually but after I'd endured it for 40 minutes first. Spoke to captains early, one formally after about 5 minutes! That kind of game but it is self reflection afterwards that helps for next time, deal with it after 10 minutes when I should have and I would have enjoyed the next 60 minutes a bit more! Still, can only try again next week.

 

[Dixie]

:norc:. He's called a society referee a cheat. It's red when Dylan Hartley does it to Wayne Barnes in a vital professional game - why is it not red when some poxy amateur does it in a game with nothing hinging on the outcome? Red all day - your Society will probably not thank you for thinking this a suitable situation in which to show "empathy". Why do you empathise with people who think you are a cheat? Do you feel they may have a point?

 

[SimonSmith]

I think it's red, for the reasons Dixie says. 15 players or not is not part of your decision making protocol.

I think it is worth thinking about your escalation process a bit. Dissent is one of those things that can get out of control very quickly unless it is absolutely nipped in the bud at the earliest opportunity.

Depending on what's said to me, the captain may get an informal warning that the next one will get done - go and tell your team.
If it happens again - it's a PK minimum. After that, we're off to the races.

I'll be honest and say that because I'm such an ass about it, I very rarely get past the 2nd penalty, if at all. I think if you allow three cheeps at you with no action, the door is wide wide open for all the players to start talking.

 

[OB..]

I think it's red, for the reasons Dixie says. 15 players or not is not part of your decision making protocol.

I think it is worth thinking about your escalation process a bit. Dissent is one of those things that can get out of control very quickly unless it is absolutely nipped in the bud at the earliest opportunity.

Depending on what's said to me, the captain may get an informal warning that the next one will get done - go and tell your team.
If it happens again - it's a PK minimum. After that, we're off to the races.

I'll be honest and say that because I'm such an ass about it, I very rarely get past the 2nd penalty, if at all. I think if you allow three cheeps at you with no action, the door is wide wide open for all the players to start talking.

Agreed.

 

[Browner]

:norc:. He's called a society referee a cheat. It's red when Dylan Hartley does it to Wayne Barnes in a vital professional game - why is it not red when some poxy amateur does it in a game with nothing hinging on the outcome? Red all day - your Society will probably not thank you for thinking this a suitable situation in which to show "empathy". Why do you empathise with people who think you are a cheat? Do you feel they may have a point?

Absobloodylutely, i'm the only unbiased person on or watching the pitch , most don't understand materiality or law either. This season I've taken to asking players [over the nosh & a pint] for the last time they read LoTG ......... my straw poll results are so far No-one, none, zilch ! captains might've read the ELV's but no one has claimed otherwise yet!

 

[OB..]

Absobloodylutely, i'm the only unbiased person on or watching the pitch , most don't understand materiality or law either. This season I've taken to asking players [over the nosh & a pint] for the last time they read LoTG ......... my straw poll results are so far No-one, none, zilch ! captains might've read the ELV's but no one has claimed otherwise yet!

That does not stop them pontificating!