[Maul] What's this restart called?

[Rolomoto]

The defending team collapsed a maul at about 1 meter from the try line. At restart, the ball is placed on the 5 meter line and the scum half picks the ball up and throws it backwards to a teammate who then charges toward the try line. What is this form of restart? Normally I would expect a scrum or a kick to touch and then a line out.
Thanks!

 

[Camquin]

Sounds like a tap penalty.
The person taking the penalty must kick the ball but can kick the ball to themself - they can then pass or run.
You can bounce the ball off your foot back into you hand, or put it on the ground and just touch it.
The ball must be seen to move but as long as the ref sees it move, it does not have to go a specified distance.

 

[Phil E]

You can bounce the ball off your foot back into you hand, or put it on the ground and just touch it.
The ball must be seen to move but as long as the ref sees it move, it does not have to go a specified distance.

Sorry, but that's incorrect. The ball must leave the mark, he can't just touch it.

[LAWS]A clear kick. The kicker must kick the ball a visible distance. If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands. If it is on the ground, it must clearly leave the mark.[/LAWS]

 

[Drift]

Sorry, but that's incorrect. The ball must leave the mark, he can't just touch it.

[LAWS]A clear kick. The kicker must kick the ball a visible distance. If the kicker is holding it, it must clearly leave the hands. If it is on the ground, it must clearly leave the mark.[/LAWS]

Good to see you're getting the big picture decisions right...

 

[Rolomoto]

Here's footage of what I'm talking about.
Thanks

https://youtu.be/MSq_75aTVXw

 

[Dickie E]

Here's footage of what I'm talking about.
Thanks

https://youtu.be/MSq_75aTVXw

Blue #21 has taken a tap kick. Has he done it properly? Who knows - ref was happy with it but camera angle has Blue #20 & #6 in the way of my vision.

Why do you ask? Are you unfamiliar with this method of taking a penalty kick? It is not unusual.

Here is an example - this one is unusual:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrbNyUukqmU

 

[Pegleg]

A completely normal method of taking a penalty. In the second the tap is normal the follow up is clever.

 

[Christy]

flying wedge or not flying wedge.
i know they didnt score a try from it .

if opposition shouts ref ref , flying wedge .
what would you think ,,
let it go or penalise move

 

[DocY]

if opposition shouts ref ref , flying wedge .
what would you think ,,
let it go or penalise move

Doesn't matter if they're shouting about it - only decide whether to penalise or not if you think it's a flying wedge.

 

[Christy]

Doesn't matter if they're shouting about it - only decide whether to penalise or not if you think it's a flying wedge.

i agree
but im asking , do others agree if it is a flying wedge .

if they had scored a try ,, i would of dis allowed try { and be of no other opinion it is a flying wedge }
so i find my self asking my self , why not penalise it anyway ,, & award penalty to deffending team

 

[DocY]

i agree
but im asking , do others agree if it is a flying wedge .

if they had scored a try ,, i would of dis allowed try { and be of no other opinion it is a flying wedge }
so i find my self asking my self , why not penalise it anyway ,, & award penalty to deffending team

I can't see a flying wedge in either clip - just binding onto the BC before he takes contact isn't a flying wedge. This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNOxiHPafOw is a flying wedge.

But you're right that you should always penalise one, regardless of if they scored.

 

[didds]

flying wedge or not flying wedge.
i know they didnt score a try from it .

if opposition shouts ref ref , flying wedge .
what would you think ,,
let it go or penalise move

i'd expect the ref to suggest to those shoutign that this is not cricket, he is not n umpire, and they do not need to appeal.

didds

 

[Christy]

I can't see a flying wedge in either clip - just binding onto the BC before he takes contact isn't a flying wedge. This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNOxiHPafOw is a flying wedge.

But you're right that you should always penalise one, regardless of if they scored.

the 1st clip posted , where a penalty is awarded . which started off this thread
he posted a you tube clip ,, penalty from maul { not the clip where ball kicked backwards over head }
the attacking team did not score try from penalty ,,but a wedge was formed .

the clip posted by your self talking about wedges. is it looks to me to be in open play .
my understanding is a wedge in open play is not punishable ,, it happens quite often ..

but a wedge & cavarly charge from a penalty is not allowed .
what you think ?

 

[DocY]

the 1st clip posted , where a penalty is awarded . which started off this thread
he posted a you tube clip ,, penalty from maul { not the clip where ball kicked backwards over head }
the attacking team did not score try from penalty ,,but a wedge was formed .

the clip posted by your self talking about wedges. is it looks to me to be in open play .
my understanding is a wedge in open play is not punishable ,, it happens quite often ..

but a wedge & cavarly charge from a penalty is not allowed .
what you think ?

A genuine wedge is an infringement whenever it happens, a PK close to the goal line is just where they typically happened.

I really don't see a wedge formed. I can see an attacking player bind onto the BC before he takes contact (twice), but that's not an offence.

Can you be more specific about where you're seeing a flying wedge?

 

[Christy]

Here's footage of what I'm talking about.
Thanks

https://youtu.be/MSq_75aTVXw

hi docy
sorry ,, its the 1st move from tap & go ,, a try is not scored ,,ball gets recycled & then they go for another try scoring opportunity ..
so im not saying the last move where they tried to score a try .
its the 1st time they try {{ is this not a flying wedge }}

in relation to rolomoto.
sorry for hi jacking your question .
but hopefully others have answered correctly for you .
when ball is on floor , it must be moved a visible distance { this allows opposition to charge legally ,, as they can see ball has moved }

placing a foot on it is not taken properly ,,if played from same { scrum opposition ,,wrongly taken penalty }
same as ball must leave hands & kicked back to your self ,,other wise opposition cant legally charge .

i like these type of questions , it allows new refs like my self to take tips & knowledge from others .
playing rugby is 1 thing ,,reffing is totally different ,{ i think }

 

[DocY]

hi docy
sorry ,, its the 1st move from tap & go ,, a try is not scored ,,ball gets recycled & then they go for another try scoring opportunity ..
so im not saying the last move where they tried to score a try .
its the 1st time they try {{ is this not a flying wedge }}

I wouldn't say so. I see the extra attacker bind on after the contact, but that (to me, at least) is perfectly legitimate. I definitely don't see anything against the spirit of the game.

in relation to rolomoto.
sorry for hi jacking your question .
but hopefully others have answered correctly for you .
when ball is on floor , it must be moved a visible distance { this allows opposition to charge legally ,, as they can see ball has moved }

placing a foot on it is not taken properly ,,if played from same { scrum opposition ,,wrongly taken penalty }
same as ball must leave hands & kicked back to your self ,,other wise opposition cant legally charge .

If you really want to open a can of worms, ask about the sanction for an incorrectly taken PK

i like these type of questions , it allows new refs like my self to take tips & knowledge from others .
playing rugby is 1 thing ,,reffing is totally different ,{ i think }

Try telling that to a scrum half!

 

[Dixie]

Firstly, let me welcome Rolomoto to the forum. You don't say where you are from, but I note you have no grade and no refereeing society so I will assume you are a relative newcomer to the game, and respond accordingly. I apologise in advance if I have misjudged that.

As others have noted, all penalties have to be taken with a kick. The kick must move the ball a visible distance, but that distance can be tiny. As you yourself note, most penalties are taken by kicking the ball a long way, but this is not required; the smaller distance kick is known as a tap penalty, and the taker does it precisely because he sees that the opposition is expecting the longer kick and has relaxed and/or moved out of position to defend against the tap.

A tap kick can be taken from or behind the mark for the penalty anywhere on the field. Once taken, the ball is back in play so the taker doesn't get an option to rethink his decision. If he finds that he would have been much better advised to take the conventional penalty, he's stuck with the choice he made and has to live with it.

A common issue for the referee and players to manage is that the penalty taker need not wait for the defence to get organised. Consequently, there are often defenders within 10m of the penalty kick when it is taken - and the law normally requires the defenders to retreat to a point 10m back. The fact that they did not have time to do so is not penalised - but they cannot interfere with the penalty taker until he has run 10m. If he passes or kicks, they still have to keep retiring until they hit the 10m mark:

[LAWS]law 21.7(c) Kick taken quickly. If the penalty kick is taken so quickly that opponents have no opportunity to retire, they will not be penalised for this. However, they must continue to retire as described in 21.7(b) above or until a team-mate who was 10 metres from the
mark has run in front of them, before they take part in the game.[/LAWS]

 

[Pegleg]

i agree
but im asking , do others agree if it is a flying wedge .

if they had scored a try ,, i would of dis allowed try { and be of no other opinion it is a flying wedge }
so i find my self asking my self , why not penalise it anyway ,, & award penalty to deffending team

Well yes it is either a flying wedge or it is not (in the ref's mind). Whether or not a try is scored is of no relevance. For me it is not a flying wedge. So my whistle would be going nowhere.