Had this experience in a game and was looking for some feedback.
Women's game - Blue vs White. The White pack was more dominant and had a bigger and more powerful 2nd and back row. The front rows were equally strong.
After calling a scrum and going through the cadence I looked at the shoulder position and body angle of both front rows. White is square across the entire front row as is blue.
There were "issues" on almost every Blue put in that caused a bit of debate. As I mentioned above I was quite happy with the shoulder position and angle of the White front row for most of the scrums at the "set" stage.
After Blue put the ball in White would drive forward and from what I could see the Blue tighthead side couldn't handle the pressure and the scrum would wheel. Again I was generally happy that White was driving forward and not boring in. Essentially because the Blue tighthead was not getting enough push from her flanker and second row, she was getting dominated in the scrum, and thus the scrum would pivot on the other side of the scrum. This lead to a handful of turnover balls either by White stealing the ball or the scrum going 90.
I reffed the white team the week prior and there were no issues at all with the scrum and no wheeling at all. This led me to believe that this wasn't so much a defensive strategy they were using, but more so a case of them being dominant in the scrum.
Blue complained that White was angling in, and the Blue coach (from the otherside of the field wasn't happy either) but I generally had no issue. I also had a referee coach and he was saying that the White team was boring in. But from my position, standing over the scrum I saw it much differently.
After the game I spoke to the Blue coach and he apologized for getting upset and we had a discussion about wheeling. His main point was that it didn't make strategic sense on a Blue put in to wheel the scrum so therefore White must have been infringing somehow. He also pointed out that on White put in's the scrums were clean. His second point was that the White tighthead was not pushing forward and that is where the scrum was pivoting, so it was somehow wrong.
My response was that as I saw it, things were square, and it was not a whip-wheel where white was walking sideways. They were pushing forward and the scrum pivoted. I also pointed out that there is no requirement in law for the front rows to actually push. If the white tighthead was square, keeping the scrum up and keeping her bind, then she was fine, even if the rest of the scrum spun around her.
I spoke to my ref coach and while I respect his thought process and point of view, I came out of the game thinking there is too much guessing of what is going wrong with a scrum and calling a penalty, just because it isn't the cleanest scrum.
Women's game - Blue vs White. The White pack was more dominant and had a bigger and more powerful 2nd and back row. The front rows were equally strong.
After calling a scrum and going through the cadence I looked at the shoulder position and body angle of both front rows. White is square across the entire front row as is blue.
There were "issues" on almost every Blue put in that caused a bit of debate. As I mentioned above I was quite happy with the shoulder position and angle of the White front row for most of the scrums at the "set" stage.
After Blue put the ball in White would drive forward and from what I could see the Blue tighthead side couldn't handle the pressure and the scrum would wheel. Again I was generally happy that White was driving forward and not boring in. Essentially because the Blue tighthead was not getting enough push from her flanker and second row, she was getting dominated in the scrum, and thus the scrum would pivot on the other side of the scrum. This lead to a handful of turnover balls either by White stealing the ball or the scrum going 90.
I reffed the white team the week prior and there were no issues at all with the scrum and no wheeling at all. This led me to believe that this wasn't so much a defensive strategy they were using, but more so a case of them being dominant in the scrum.
Blue complained that White was angling in, and the Blue coach (from the otherside of the field wasn't happy either) but I generally had no issue. I also had a referee coach and he was saying that the White team was boring in. But from my position, standing over the scrum I saw it much differently.
After the game I spoke to the Blue coach and he apologized for getting upset and we had a discussion about wheeling. His main point was that it didn't make strategic sense on a Blue put in to wheel the scrum so therefore White must have been infringing somehow. He also pointed out that on White put in's the scrums were clean. His second point was that the White tighthead was not pushing forward and that is where the scrum was pivoting, so it was somehow wrong.
My response was that as I saw it, things were square, and it was not a whip-wheel where white was walking sideways. They were pushing forward and the scrum pivoted. I also pointed out that there is no requirement in law for the front rows to actually push. If the white tighthead was square, keeping the scrum up and keeping her bind, then she was fine, even if the rest of the scrum spun around her.
I spoke to my ref coach and while I respect his thought process and point of view, I came out of the game thinking there is too much guessing of what is going wrong with a scrum and calling a penalty, just because it isn't the cleanest scrum.