When did RU outlaw the shoulder charge

[ckuxmann]

When was the shoulder charge outlawed in Rugby Union? Was it ever legal?

Watching 01 lions tour and just had it popped into my head.


Thanks
Cody

 

[Davet]

Two players running for a ball may use their shoulders to compete.

 

[ckuxmann]

When I say shoulder charge I mean old rugby league style tackle.

 

[OB..]

When was the shoulder charge outlawed in Rugby Union? Was it ever legal?

Not an easy question to answer.

Since the start (1871) a legal tackle has required use of the arms to hold a player, but that does not in itself make a shoulder charge illegal - that would come under foul play, and can be expressed in a variety of ways.
[LAWS]1892
Free kicks by way of penalties [ie the modern PK] shall be awarded on claims by the opposite side if any player:
illegally tackles, charges, or obstructs an opponent [...][/LAWS]

Basically it has always been illegal if the refere regarded it as dangerous.

 

[ckuxmann]

Alright, thanks

 

[Rassie]

Define a shoulder charge

 

[Account Deleted]

Define a shoulder charge

"You charge into somebody with your shoulder leading."

Just a thought.

 

[OB..]

The tackle has always involved holding a player.

The specific offence of the "no arms tackle" dates from 1989/90[LAWS]The following actions constitute prima facie dangerous play:-
(a) If a player charges or knocks down an opponent carrying the ball without any attempt to grasp him (as in a tackle);
[..][/LAWS]

 

[ChrisR]

Note that the word is "grasp", not "wrap". Big difference.

- - - Updated - - -

Note that the word is "grasp", not "wrap". Big difference.

 

[OB..]

Note that the word is "grasp", not "wrap". Big difference.

"Attempt to grasp ... (as in a tackle)". The tackle law said the player had to be "held". Would you not regard wrapping as an attempt to grasp? Let's not get overly pedantic.

 

[Browner]

"You charge into somebody with your shoulder leading."

Just a thought.

In Ranties armchair world, that's foreplay ! epper:

 

[ChrisR]

OB - Not pedantic. "Wrap" implies both arms around. "Grasp" can be a single hand.

 

[OB..]

OB - Not pedantic. "Wrap" implies both arms around. "Grasp" can be a single hand.

The question was about banning the shoulder charge.

I can "wrap" one arm round the shoulders of my granddaughter.

I don't see this as getting us anywhere.

 

[ChrisR]

Jus' sayin', OB.

My point is that I always hear references to "wrap" or "not wrapping" and the physical act of wrapping is very different from "grasping".

Because this has become the common term (incorrectly) then the requirement to "wrap" (rather than grasp) has led to poor officiating in my experience.

That is why it matters and I'm surprised that you, of all people, think it pedantic.

 

[Phil E]

As a coach how do you teach people to tackle?
The RFU approved teaching technique is cheek to cheek, band of steel, wrapping the arms round.
AFAIAA the RFU tackling technique doesn't mention grasping.

I think you are just playing with words to try and prove a point. We all know what it means.

 

[OB..]

I'm surprised that you, of all people, think it pedantic.

I thought I had said many times that scrying the entrails of the words is not the best way to determine what a law means.

 

[Browner]

I thought I had said many times that scrying the entrails of the words is not the best way to determine what a law means.

Marauder, tut tut, starting to debate words with OB .... when will these youngsters learn !

 

[ChrisR]

Tut, tut yourself. I'm not debating words, I'm pointing out that because of the common use of "wrap" I'm concerned that some referees, (nobody on this site, of course) believe that a full wrap is required by law.

Phil, if "We all know what it means." then I'm happy to stop making my point. And yes, I coach "wrap" but then my kids aren't refereeing the game.

PS. Browner, OB & I are about the same vintage.

OB, is "scrying" a real word? Or are you having me on. I don't profess to be a wordsmith.

 

[Browner]

my wit seems to have zipped straight over your head ...OB never concedes, he reconfigures the discussion .....or have you not learned that yet tut tut

 

[Womble]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrying