When is a lineout deemed to have formed, so that a quick throw-in is no longer possible?
And where are the offside lines at a quick throw-in?
These questions bothered me in a recent match where I allowed Red to throw in quickly every time that they would have been awarded a lineout. Red did so while players from both sides were still retreating towards their offside lines or trundling towards the line of touch. Most forwards from either side were still some way from the line of touch when Red threw the ball to one of their players (see Law 19.2.a: “A player may take a quick throw-in without waiting for a lineout to form”).
Much complaining ensued from Green, who sometimes also had one or two players in the general vicinity of the throw-in. Green insisted that if two of their players were present, then the lineout has been formed, and Red's quick throw-in should be disallowed (Law 19.2.c: “A player must not take a quick throw-in after the lineout has formed”; and Law 19.8.a: ”At least two players from each team must form a lineout”).
But does Law 19 actually say that:
a. the lineout is formed if two players from one side are present?
or merely,
b. two players are the minimum number of players for a lineout to take place?
I took position b), thinking that the stipulation is similar to the one that limits scrums to a minimum of five players from each side (Laws 3.3 & Law 20.1.e, although these address a situation where there are fewer than 15 players on the field of play).
If I was correct, then a lineout had not yet properly been formed here, which would require players from both sides forming two lines along the line of touch, with players standing onside in various positions.
Was I wrong, and Green right, that the presence of two players from each team means a lineout has formed?
If so, has a lineout been formed when two Green players and one Red player are standing along the line of touch, but other players have not yet arrived?
Even if Green was right, and a lineout had formed, does Law 19.8 prevent Red from operating a quick lineout under these circumstances?
As if the match progressed, I actually became more worried about another issue: where are the offside lines when a quick throw-in is taken? Are they non-existent until a tackle, maul or ruck develops (i.e. governed by Law 11.1, Offside in General Play)? Or does the ball form the offside line (Law 19.3.b)?
And where are the offside lines at a quick throw-in?
These questions bothered me in a recent match where I allowed Red to throw in quickly every time that they would have been awarded a lineout. Red did so while players from both sides were still retreating towards their offside lines or trundling towards the line of touch. Most forwards from either side were still some way from the line of touch when Red threw the ball to one of their players (see Law 19.2.a: “A player may take a quick throw-in without waiting for a lineout to form”).
Much complaining ensued from Green, who sometimes also had one or two players in the general vicinity of the throw-in. Green insisted that if two of their players were present, then the lineout has been formed, and Red's quick throw-in should be disallowed (Law 19.2.c: “A player must not take a quick throw-in after the lineout has formed”; and Law 19.8.a: ”At least two players from each team must form a lineout”).
But does Law 19 actually say that:
a. the lineout is formed if two players from one side are present?
or merely,
b. two players are the minimum number of players for a lineout to take place?
I took position b), thinking that the stipulation is similar to the one that limits scrums to a minimum of five players from each side (Laws 3.3 & Law 20.1.e, although these address a situation where there are fewer than 15 players on the field of play).
If I was correct, then a lineout had not yet properly been formed here, which would require players from both sides forming two lines along the line of touch, with players standing onside in various positions.
Was I wrong, and Green right, that the presence of two players from each team means a lineout has formed?
If so, has a lineout been formed when two Green players and one Red player are standing along the line of touch, but other players have not yet arrived?
Even if Green was right, and a lineout had formed, does Law 19.8 prevent Red from operating a quick lineout under these circumstances?
As if the match progressed, I actually became more worried about another issue: where are the offside lines when a quick throw-in is taken? Are they non-existent until a tackle, maul or ruck develops (i.e. governed by Law 11.1, Offside in General Play)? Or does the ball form the offside line (Law 19.3.b)?