Who'd be a TMO?

[Jacko]

Interesting clip:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqP-W55tq1w

Ignore the massive breach of protocol for the time period involved and assume that this got sent upstairs under this year's arrangements.

Decision - knock on or charge down??

 

[crossref]

i think that's a knock on, as I thnk he was trying to catch it, and failed.

I think that he could have, if he had thought of it, simply blocked the ball, deliberately knocking it forward, as a charge down. No reason why you can't charge down a ball at knee level --- but he didn't he tried to catch it.

 

[FlipFlop]

Knock on.

 

[Toby Warren]

Knock on. Anything else would take a HUGE sell.

 

[Rushforth]

Knock on. Penalty try. YC White 13.

 

[Phil E]

Knock on, I'm surprised we are even discussing it!

 

[Rushforth]

Knock on, I'm surprised we are even discussing it!

It is (with the advantage of video evidence) quite clearly a knock on.

What surprises me is that nobody else is even interested in the fact that White 13 clearly and obviously stretches out his arm to impede Red chip-kicker. Penalty at absolute minimum, but if the TMO is involved then might as well not ignore 10.4 (f).

[LAWS]Playing an opponent without the ball. Except in a scrum, ruck or maul, a player who is not in possession of the ball must not hold, push or obstruct an opponent not carrying the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]

 

[Browner]

white 13.......... if you penalised that you'd be whistling all day. Q? does anyone support my contention that 'charge down' was never intended to cover fly hacking, it was supposed to be a punt defence exception to the knock on laws?

 

[Rushforth]

white 13.......... if you penalised that you'd be whistling all day.

It is clear and obvious obstruction. So clear, and so obvious, that I would have missed it 90% of the time, because I would watch the ball for the potential knock-on.

Last year I let myself get annoyed by some U17s (both teams). Five minutes of jobsworthy whistling. They scrummaged a lot. Oddly, they were less annoying afterwards.

Who'd be a referee?

 

[OB..]

white 13.......... if you penalised that you'd be whistling all day. Q? does anyone support my contention that 'charge down' was never intended to cover fly hacking, it was supposed to be a punt defence exception to the knock on laws?

The essence of a charge down is that the player is simply blocking the kick, has no time to try to play the ball, and no control over where it hits him. The type of kick is irrelevant.

 

[Account Deleted]

View attachment 2628Knock on. Penalty try. YC White 13.

Not a chance of a PT there. (Try would have PROBABLY been scored - no way.)

 

[Rushforth]

Not a chance of a PT there. (Try would have PROBABLY been scored - no way.)

How do you reach that conclusion when Red pressed the ball down in goal?

I'd be happy with a straight penalty, don't get me wrong. But scrum feels wrong.

 

[Ian_Cook]

How do you reach that conclusion when Red pressed the ball down in goal?

I'd be happy with a straight penalty, don't get me wrong. But scrum feels wrong.

Actually, that is a really good point. Most times in that situation, the reason we don't give a PT because, either we don't think the player would have got to the ball, or we see there were sufficient defenders to have prevented the try from being scored.

However, in this case, the obstructed player actually still does ground the ball in goal. That removes the issue about whether the player would have got to the ball in-goal, so the only questions remaining are

1. was it foul play? Yes.
2. did it happen before the knock forward. Yes

I think PT would be a fair call

 

[Browner]

The essence of a charge down is that the player is simply blocking the kick, has no time to try to play the ball, and no control over where it hits him. The type of kick is irrelevant.

I know that law doesn't differentiate, but nevertheless both video examples shown in the definition, and the illustration that follows show a 'charge down' to be from a punt where the hands knock the ball downwards ...... I wonder if that was the sole intention once?

 

[OB..]

I know that law doesn't differentiate, but nevertheless both video examples shown in the definition, and the illustration that follows show a 'charge down' to be from a punt where the hands knock the ball downwards ...... I wonder if that was the sole intention once?

I don't see why. It's just that overwhelmingly it is a punt that gets blocked.