The Rugby Club & Bryce Lawrence's Scrums

[Davet]

Red for home Green for away, or maybe Yellow for away since RG colour blindness is relatively widespread. Sound good, them you know for sure whose sneaky hand is in there.

 

[OB..]

If they are going to wear mitts, then velcro patches are the obvious (daft) answer.

 

[Mike Whittaker]

Whilst on the serious subject of colour in kit - what about these scrum caps etc?? There doesn't appear to be any control!!

Clearly they should all be predominantly (>80%) the main colour of the rest of the kit.

Next we will address the colour of all this tape on the legs...

 

[Mike Whittaker]

If they are going to wear mitts, then velcro patches are the obvious (daft) answer.

OB, you again show your awareness and understanding! Presumably the velcro will be of the same colour as the mitt that should be placed on it? Props may need that sort of guidance judging by their current inability to put there hands in the right place

 

[andyscott]

Get the bind right, put it in straight, hold the push. Standard fare for pre match brief. We might even have a decent contest at scrum time!
Jumpers for goalposts etc.:deadhorse::chin:

Now thats fine, what if on the hit, we go straight to ground without getting a bind, who do you ping?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Wendyball teams seem to have no problem with an odd neutral coloured shirt for the goal-keeper.

Hockey teams (Field and Ice) have no issue with special outfits for the goal-keeper.

Cricket teams have no problem with special gloves (two types) and special pads for the wicket-keeper.

I don't see it as an issue. A Club is required to have available specialist props jerseys (just as they require STE Props) or the game starts with uncontested scrums.

 

[bignij]

Now thats fine, what if on the hit, we go straight to ground without getting a bind, who do you ping?

If there's no definitive miscreant, then no-one. Reset and watch a bit closer.
I fear you may have missed my very heavy dose of irony.

 

[didds]

Didds, you have this exact same problem anyway, props sharing shirts are different sizes now, what difference will it make?

I had thought there was a problem with numbered shirts... but you're right Dave now I've thought aboput it a bit longer!

didds

 

[AiseaT39]

The referees have been going after the weaker scrums with penalties and extra attention. They only correct half of the time!!

The so called stronger scrum will milk the penalty everytime since the referee will blame the weak one!

 

[Mike Whittaker]

At grass roots level it is much easier to ping the stronger pack. "Keep it up and hold it steady or we go uncontested - and you loose the advantage!"

In other words you put the decision making in the hands of the side which is capable of controlling the scrum - and if they make the right decision, fine.

 

[AiseaT39]

I remember an England vs Australia match during the Aussie European tour when the English LHP binds and pull down on the Aussie THP which collapsed that side of the scrum. Aussie gets penalised all the time. I wonder what the referee & the assistants were looking at?

 

[Ian_Cook]

At grass roots level it is much easier to ping the stronger pack. "Keep it up and hold it steady or we go uncontested - and you loose the advantage!"

In other words you put the decision making in the hands of the side which is capable of controlling the scrum - and if they make the right decision, fine.

A great solution at grass roots level Mike, but at the international level, you would immediately become the Wallabies' best friend :biggrin:

 

[Mike Whittaker]

I remember an England vs Australia match during the Aussie European tour when the English LHP binds and pull down on the Aussie THP which collapsed that side of the scrum. Aussie gets penalised all the time. I wonder what the referee & the assistants were looking at?

The THP boring in, of course

 

[Ian_Cook]

I remember an England vs Australia match during the Aussie European tour when the English LHP binds and pull down on the Aussie THP which collapsed that side of the scrum. Aussie gets penalised all the time. I wonder what the referee & the assistants were looking at?

If its the match I am thinking of, either Alain Rolland or Joel Jutge was the referee, and Al Baxter was the THP who was, together with George Gregan, getting up to their usual tricks of trying to avoid scrummaging if at all possible. If the Wallabies did "win" the hit, as soon as the pressure came on, Baxter would head for the deck, gambling that the referee would not PK and simply reset. If so, mission accomplished, then they would put the reset scrum down and get the ball in and out as quickly as they could.

Paul Ackford once said something like "Australia's worst nightmare is a referee who keeps them on their feet in the scrum and makes them participate in a proper contest". Rolland is one of those referees.

 

[Dixie]

The referees have been going after the weaker scrums with penalties and extra attention. They only correct half of the time!!

The so called stronger scrum will milk the penalty everytime since the referee will blame the weak one!

I agree. Solution? RL scrums, perhaps?

 

[damo]

We need to keep the contest in the scrums, otherwise we will see 15 players all of the same body type, ala rugby league, and this would be a huge shame.

I wonder if at the elite level down to say senior club rugby there needs to be specialised TH and LH jerseys that are loosefitting and have a clearly seen spot on them for their opposing number to grab. If this were done, the ref would have no excuse for binding in the wrong place, he could simply see if the binding was on the spot or not.

 

[Mike Whittaker]

We need to keep the contest in the scrums, otherwise we will see 15 players all of the same body type, ala rugby league, and this would be a huge shame.

I wonder if at the elite level down to say senior club rugby there needs to be specialised TH and LH jerseys that are loosefitting and have a clearly seen spot on them for their opposing number to grab. If this were done, the ref would have no excuse for binding in the wrong place, he could simply see if the binding was on the spot or not.

Do you really think that the referees at the elite level need to have the props with clear spots marked on their jerseys to tell them whether the bind is in the right place or not? Mind you, they do seem to have difficulty so perhaps...

 

[Bury_Dave]

I think the problem there is .. define "loose"... we can bandy about what we mean by loose, and probably agree. But the requirement needs to be defined well enough so that a shirt is ALWAYS Ok, niot open to interpretation on a weekly basis, and consider the fcat that club owned shirts may have to "fit" differently shaped props from week to week.
didds

Sorry, but that attitude of finding excuses NOT to put right something that we pretty much all agree is spoiling the game seems poppycock to me.

There are plenty of things for which the ref' is sole judge of fact and law and some wording that permits him to be able to grab a shirt or see a pre-match test scrum to ensure that shirts are grabbable (?) might sort that out. Surely the current set-up is killing what was once a thrilling part of the game ? I think that if some clubs need several shirts in order to be able to have a proper scrum, that's a small price to pay to get something off track back on track.

It may be something starting to happen in our levels of rugby but is only a serious problem in the rareified national and international levels where shirts are provided by sponsors anyways. At lower levels, clubs would soon learn to adapt and comply if it were dealt with every time it might become an issue.

 

[didds]

Sorry, but that attitude of finding excuses NOT to put right something that we pretty much all agree is spoiling the game seems poppycock to me.

I don't disgree generally speaking. But I would add regarding these shirts suggestions... it just seems to me that its a desperate attempt to "fix" something by introducing MORE laws/requirements especially wher it introduces even MORE cost to teams. Quite why the average level 8 team would want shiny shirts defeats me - they'd be better off spending the money on giving every player a ball to take home and actually get used to passing properly!

didds

 

[Davet]

Didds

I thought we'd agreed that the shirt cost would not rise, you need shirts to fit all players, you still need shirts to fit all players.

You are absolutely right, though - buying tight shiny shirts in the first place is not money well spent in terms of opportunity cost.