the coaches, players and fans all want quick ball and space. those are our goals.
ps. The referee's the only person entitled to an opinion during the game , so that coach can like it or lump it.
Tell that to the coach, Phil. During the game, the coach should be telling his players to obey the match referee, not trying to undermine the man's authority. At least half of those who've replied to this discussion find the coach's tactic debatable. So either a quick word before the game, or a quiet word after the match to debate the issue.... The coach of one side was, not having a go at the referee but was debating his decisions about the breakdown and the ruck.... can he just put his hands on it trying to win maybe a penalty against the tackled player for not releasing which was put the coach who stated that was not the case.
We are meant to be working with coaches, not against them.
We are trying to get away from this Them and Us mentality.
Simon, I agree entirely. However the coach in question is certain not entitled to debate decisions from the sideline. Ignoring law 6A4 in order to prove himself right on (a debatable point of law in) 15.4, just isn't on. I am a mini/midi/maxi coach, who got into reffin' only because here coachs are obliged to ref, since local referees are not trained in all aspects of mini/midi/maxi player safety. I then moved up to other age groups, because I enjoyed being in the middle. Don't believe I am guilty of an "Us and Them" attitude, being first and foremost a coach.
My point, is more that the coach is trying to be too clever, ignoring player safety. First teach them to get the basics right, drive over the ball to win the ruck. Let the clever stuff to the professional players ; TV rugby is a very different sport, I certainly dislike seeing it imitated at the local Rec.
Rugby laws explained: The ruck
It this BBC clip, the jackler did the most natural thing in the world, he bound on to the opposition player who drove in to him. Why, would a coach in grassroots want teach anything different?[/QUOTE]
Hmmnn ?
At England U16 players are expected to have a game/skill/set that starts to match the elite .....'saddle roll' etc
Who teaches him this? school/club/District/ SoR / EPDG ?
I listened to a U15 Midlands training camp, where the 'absence of skills' was being offerred as a problem that needed addressing before the players arrive there !
Or ............. Elite could revert back to the shoving contest, to match the LoTG?
That clip dates from 2008, before jackling was legal.Rugby laws explained: The ruck
It this BBC clip, the jackler did the most natural thing in the world, he bound on to the opposition player who drove in to him. Why, would a coach in grassroots want teach anything different?
Yipe, yet another discussion going off topic.
The BFG's post #15 makes the most sense in the context of harlequins1970's original post.
The jackler's coach is coaching his (young?) players to adopt a position (shoulders below hips) which is dangerous. Shame the opposition's prop didn't pile into him, that'd end the debate about safe, or not safe. In the interests of player safety, blow up the ruck, consider red carding the coach for repeatedly shouting at the ref's decision.
I don't particularly disagree with those who say the ref may have got it wrong ; however perhaps harlequins1970 might like to point out to the coach in question that player safety comes first ; that and any decent coach would wait 'til after the game to have a quiet word with the ref about the decision, rather than shouting during the game. (Showing great example to his charges, not!) The coach is wrong on at least 2 counts. As far as we know the ref only made the 1 misinterpretation of the LoTG.
First thing I learnt as a coach was to observe during the games, how else can he hope to advice/correct/improve his players abilities.
Challenge to OB and Flipflop: bearing in mind that Law 21 deals with the team taking a PK or FK, and not with rucks, find an offence in the iRB law book with which to punish the jackler who holds the ball against the body of a rolled-up tackled player who is busily covering his head rather than rolling away?
The Jackler has only been legal since some when after 11 May 2009 question by All Blacks to iRB for clarification....I listened to a U15 Midlands training camp, where the 'absence of skills' was being offerred as a problem that needed addressing before the players arrive there !
Or ............. Elite could revert back to the shoving contest, to match the LoTG
Exactly. What is he going to gain by just holding the ball down?.... But lets be honest - how often do you see someone jsut hold the ball down, without trying to lift, or steal it, or without them trying to win a PK for "holding on"? Rarely in my experience.
Exactly. What is he going to gain by just holding the ball down?
Surely nearly every player will grab the ball and play it if he can.
But presumably by the same logic if the Jackler picked up the ball 1/5 of a second earlier, he could himself then gain 1m.Do any of you chat to coaches? For every 1/5 of a second the ball can be slowed down, the defence can get back and re aline by about 1m ...
Do any of you chat to coaches? For every 1/5 of a second the ball can be slowed down, the defence can get back and re aline by about 1m, you don't need to slow it much & its only a ploy used when there isn't enough time to lift it. Secondly, if the jackler can just get his fingers the far side, when he is cleaned out he may just be able to drag the ball with him. We are talking fine margins here but still worth discussing and learning about.
Do any of you chat to coaches? For every 1/5 of a second the ball can be slowed down, the defence can get back and re aline by about 1m, you don't need to slow it much & its only a ploy used when there isn't enough time to lift it. Secondly, if the jackler can just get his fingers the far side, when he is cleaned out he may just be able to drag the ball with him. We are talking fine margins here but still worth discussing and learning about.
Doesn't 15.6(e) cover it?... Where's the offense?