10-Meter Law

[RussRef]

Pre-season studying has raised two questions. Appreciate any help.

1. Here's the text of 11.4 (f): The 10-metre Law does not apply when a player kicks the ball, and an opponent charges down the kick, and a team-mate of the kicker who was in front of the imaginary 10-metre line across the field then plays the ball. The opponent was not 'waiting to play the ball' and the team-mate is onside. The 10-metre Law applies if the ball touches or is played by an opponent but is not charged down.

Let's assume Blue 10 kicks ahead with Blue 12 right behind him and Blue 7 and Gold 7 just in front. Gold 7 charges Blue 10's kick down, and the ball lands in front of Blue 10. Blue 7 is not offside under the 10-meter law because of 11.4(f). BUT Blue 7 is offside under 11.1 because he's ahead of his teammate (Blue 10), who last played the ball. Agree?

2. Simpler question: can you offer the scrum option under 11.4? Or does it just apply to 11.1?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Pre-season studying has raised two questions. Appreciate any help.

1. Here's the text of 11.4 (f): The 10-metre Law does not apply when a player kicks the ball, and an opponent charges down the kick, and a team-mate of the kicker who was in front of the imaginary 10-metre line across the field then plays the ball. The opponent was not 'waiting to play the ball' and the team-mate is onside. The 10-metre Law applies if the ball touches or is played by an opponent but is not charged down.

Let's assume Blue 10 kicks ahead with Blue 12 right behind him and Blue 7 and Gold 7 just in front. Gold 7 charges Blue 10's kick down, and the ball lands in front of Blue 10. Blue 7 is not offside under the 10-meter law because of 11.4(f). BUT Blue 7 is offside under 11.1 because he's ahead of his teammate (Blue 10), who last played the ball. Agree?

No, his team-mate wasn't the last player who played the ball, Gold 7 was.

A charge-down is essentially the same as a touched-in-flight, provided that the player was not attempting to play the ball or catch-it, but just to block it*

If Gold 7 just gets a hand on the ball and it deflects 20m further upfield in the direction that Blue 10 kicked it, then ALL the Blue players are onside

Have a look at this from the 2000 Wallabies v All Blacks game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heoO_5MvZ0w&t=0m09s

Black 10 kicks the ball. When the Gold player deflects the ball, all the black players, (1 - 9) who were at the scrum and ahead of the kick are all immediately onside.

2. Simpler question: can you offer the scrum option under 11.4? Or does it just apply to 11.1?

I completely understand your confusion. If you are talking about this...

[LAWS]Sanction: When a player is penalised for being offside in general play, the opposing team
chooses either a penalty kick at the place of infringement or a scrum at the place where the
offending team last played the ball. If it was last played in that team’s in-goal, the scrum is
formed 5 metres from the goal line in line with where it was played.[/LAWS]
...then I think so, even though I think this is yet another example of poorly written Law. It appears as if it is part of Law 11.4, but was probably intended to cover all of 11.1 to 11.4

IMO, it ought to be in 11.1 as, if you look, 11.1 does not contain any sanctions at all.


*NOTE

This is a judgement call for the referee to make.

My general rule of thumb was that if the player who touches the kicked ball just stuck a hand or arm out in an attempting to block the ball (always when the ball is on its way up), then its a charge down. If he was attempting to catch the ball, then its not a charge down, and the 10m Law still applies to players ahead of the kicker.

 

[Account Deleted]

Why is the scrum option rarely offered?

 

[Phil E]

Why is the scrum option rarely offered?

It should always be offered, however....
Because there's usually not a lot of difference between the two places, a penalty is the better option.

 

[Account Deleted]

But that is for the players to decide not the referee. Again in Saturday's game kick was from inside the defending 22 (approx 15mtrs from goal line and central. The ball landed in the other half, virtually on the cross of the 10 mtr and the 5 metre (from touch) line. Ref ran to where the ball landed, gave the "within 10" signal and the PK. The scrum was very much a consideration if not a cast iron gimmie.

 

[Phil E]

How do you know he didn't offer them the scrum and they declined?
We're you wired up to him?

 

[crossref]

Pre-season studying has raised two questions. Appreciate any help.

1. Here's the text of 11.4 (f): The 10-metre Law does not apply when a player kicks the ball, and an opponent charges down the kick, and a team-mate of the kicker who was in front of the imaginary 10-metre line across the field then plays the ball. The opponent was not 'waiting to play the ball' and the team-mate is onside. The 10-metre Law applies if the ball touches or is played by an opponent but is not charged down.

Let's assume Blue 10 kicks ahead with Blue 12 right behind him and Blue 7 and Gold 7 just in front. Gold 7 charges Blue 10's kick down, and the ball lands in front of Blue 10. Blue 7 is not offside under the 10-meter law because of 11.4(f). BUT Blue 7 is offside under 11.1 because he's ahead of his teammate (Blue 10), who last played the ball. Agree?

2. Simpler question: can you offer the scrum option under 11.4? Or does it just apply to 11.1?

going back to the OP, my understanding of this confusingly written Law is

red kicks the ball

- if a blue player charges down the kick then ALL red players are immediately onside, without exception

- but if a blue player otherwise touches the ball without catching it (ie not a charge down but perhaps fumbles a catch or sticks out a hand as it passes low overhead) then this time all red players are put onside EXCEPT any red player caught by the 10m rule, who remains offside.


is that correct?

 

[Dixie]

going back to the OP, my understanding of this confusingly written Law is

red kicks the ball

- if a blue player charges down the kick then ALL red players are immediately onside, without exception

- but if a blue player otherwise touches the ball without catching it (ie not a charge down but perhaps fumbles a catch or sticks out a hand as it passes low overhead) then this time all red players are put onside EXCEPT any red player caught by the 10m rule, who remains offside.


is that correct?

Sounds about right. The difficulty is often determining what constitutes a charge down in that intermediate zone when the "charger" is not right on top of the kicker. But if the Blue player has time to try to catch the ball but fails, then yes - all hitherto offside Red players may move forward from that point onwards (Law 11.3), unless they were inside the 10m zone (11.3 does not apply to players offside under the 10m law).

An interesting point I had not previously considered arises from 11.4(g):

[LAWS]11.4(g) If more than one player is offside and moving forward after a team-mate has kicked ahead, the place of infringement is the position of the offside player closest to an opponent waiting for the ball, or closest to where the ball lands.[/LAWS]

This provision should really be in 11.1, having nothing to do with the 10m law covered by 11.4. But even if it were in the right place, it is utterly illogical. Scenario: Blue 10 kicks from his 22 and the ball lands on the oppo 10m line. Blue 12 is offside midfield on his own 23m line and starts moving forward. Under the oddly-placed sanction for Law 11.1 offences, the PK is awarded midfield on the 23m line - i.e. where the offence took place. But if another Blue player, positioned 2m from the touchline and just inside his own half, also starts moving forward ... the PK is to be awarded where that player was, thereby ensuring that the Pk is much less likely to result in a score for the non-offending team.

 

[crossref]

I don't know: the alternative is that the Law could say that when there is more than one player liable to sanction the referee awards the PK in the place most advantageous.
- but that might put the referee in a difficult position : is it the one nearest the ball so that they can do a quick tap, or the one futhest up the field, or that one that offers the best chance of a kick (but then the referee has to have an idea of how good a kicker they have, and also the score, becasue if thjey are 4 points down with 3 mins to go the kick might be irrelevant)

so perhaps it's best if the Law simply specifies ?

 

[Taff]

Why is the scrum option rarely offered?

I must admit that until I was set straight here, I didn't know that the PK / scrum option existed for offside under the 10m law. Perhaps some other refs don't know there's an option either.

 

[damo]

going back to the OP, my understanding of this confusingly written Law is

red kicks the ball

- if a blue player charges down the kick then ALL red players are immediately onside, without exception

- but if a blue player otherwise touches the ball without catching it (ie not a charge down but perhaps fumbles a catch or sticks out a hand as it passes low overhead) then this time all red players are put onside EXCEPT any red player caught by the 10m rule, who remains offside.


is that correct?

Yes.

Or at least, I hope so because that is how I understand it.

 

[RussRef]

I have a completely anecdotal sense that you don't see more scrum options taken for offsides in general play because I have never -- and I mean never -- seen another referee use the corrrect secondary signal for offside: straight arm to the non-offending side, other arm pointing to where the scrum option can be taken. The correct signal might at least prompt a captain to ask what you're pointing at.

 

[SimonSmith]

I have a completely anecdotal sense that you don't see more scrum options taken for offsides in general play because I have never -- and I mean never -- seen another referee use the corrrect secondary signal for offside: straight arm to the non-offending side, other arm pointing to where the scrum option can be taken. The correct signal might at least prompt a captain to ask what you're pointing at.

you should come watch me some time then.

I had two on Saturday

 

[Account Deleted]

How do you know he didn't offer them the scrum and they declined?
We're you wired up to him?

He was nowhere near the captain or any player and he ran immediately to the mark. With the size of the crowd present the shout of the offer would have been heard. we could hear the engagements being called there was nothing here.

So whilst not wired up we were able to hear the ref. He did not offer the option.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

Originally Posted by crossref
going back to the OP, my understanding of this confusingly written Law is

red kicks the ball

- if a blue player charges down the kick then ALL red players are immediately onside, without exception

- but if a blue player otherwise touches the ball without catching it (ie not a charge down but perhaps fumbles a catch or sticks out a hand as it passes low overhead) then this time all red players are put onside EXCEPT any red player caught by the 10m rule, who remains offside.


is that correct?



Yes.

Or at least, I hope so because that is how I understand it.

I agree with the above, but think it is also important to clarify that "charges down the kick" in the above includes an attempted charge-down (provided there is contact with the ball). As per an earlier poster (apologies - no clever enought to be able to look back a page whilst responding) my rule of thumb is that any hand or arm stuck out in what appears to be an attempt to block the ball constitutes a charge down for these purposes (provided there is contact with the ball), thus obviating the 10m law.​