2017 v 2018 Definition of Charge Down

[ChuckieB]

[FONT=fs_blakeregular]Open play - The period after a kick-off, restart kick, free-kick, penalty or set piece and before the next phase, or the period between phases of play, excluding when the ball is dead.[/FONT]

[FONT=fs_blakeregular]So Kick-offs are swept up, as, I suppose, are now DO's although not specifically referred to.

That is hardly a play on words. It a removal of an exception and to me that can only mean a change.[/FONT]

 

[crossref]

Let's try another one .. location of the PK when a player knocks the ball over the DBL .. again not an extremely rare event. It might happen tomorrow ..
2017 Law Book .. 15m in from touchline
2018 Law Book .. in line with the offence

I am following the 2018 Law Book. How can we do otherwise

 

[OB..]

Really, it doesn't matter if it was a mistake or not.
What is written in the Law Book is, um, the actual Law

There isn't another, hidden, master Law Book which we can refer to to check if the Law Book is 'correct'

Which Law Book? We have been told that the 2018 version does not contain any changes in the laws, whereas we are finding various levels of difference between the two documents.

Given that the stated intention was that there would be no changes, I lean towards using the 2017 version as the more definitive.

 

[crossref]

Which Law Book? We have been told that the 2018 version does not contain any changes in the laws, whereas we are finding various levels of difference between the two documents.

Given that the stated intention was that there would be no changes, I lean towards using the 2017 version as the more definitive.

Which I find very intriguing .. the email you have received from the Society takes priority over the Law Book

For me the order is the opposite
1 the 2018 Law Book
2 if the 2018 Law Book is not clear, then refer to the 2017 Law Book for guidance (eg the options on a knock on into touch)

How long will you continue to regard the 2017 Law Book as primary ? Will it overide the 2019 and 2020 Law Books ? Can the Laws ever be changed again ?

 

[didds]

Given that the stated intention was that there would be no changes, I lean towards using the 2017 version as the more definitive.

A more than reasonable approach.

Presumably that just makes the 2018 book redundant and pointless however (as a general discussion point).

didds

 

[crossref]

OB.. so if you watch a game where the referee follows the 2018 Law Book , you will mark it down as a Law Error ?
That will be an interesting post match discussion!

 

[Marc Wakeham]

And now they have changed the definition in the knock on Law

No they have not. CONTEXT!

 

[Marc Wakeham]

[FONT=fs_blakeregular]Open play - The period after a kick-off, restart kick, free-kick, penalty or set piece and before the next phase, or the period between phases of play, excluding when the ball is dead.[/FONT]

[FONT=fs_blakeregular]So Kick-offs are swept up, as, I suppose, are now DO's although not specifically referred to.

That is hardly a play on words. It a removal of an exception and to me that can only mean a change.[/FONT]

The Kick initiates the period of open play. That starts AFTER the kick. The kick is not in open play.

Not well written but simple enough.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Can the Laws ever be changed again ?

Just a nonsense statement. Do you really wish just to started an argument / debate?

 

[Marc Wakeham]

what about a ref starting this season? is he expected to have an inate knowledge of last year's book?

didds

I'd expect a new referee to have undergone training and development with regard to laws an interpretation.So, or new referee should be better prepared that an old codger who can't be bothered to prepare.

 

[crossref]

No they have not. CONTEXT!

Oh, yes they have !

 

[crossref]

Just a nonsense statement. Do you really wish just to started an argument / debate?

OB stated that the 2017 Laws are not overridden by the 2018 Law Book .. so I am asking . If publishing a new Law Book doesn't do the trick then how can they ever be changed ,

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Let's try another one .. location of the PK when a player knocks the ball over the DBL .. again not an extremely rare event. It might happen tomorrow ..
2017 Law Book .. 15m in from touchline
2018 Law Book .. in line with the offence

I am following the 2018 Law Book. How can we do otherwise

That appears to be a clear change (along with the PT Card issue) Which is why I've asked my society for clarification as to whether or not it is an error. Until they come back I'm sticking with the original message - NO CHANGE!

 

[Marc Wakeham]

OB stated that the 2017 Laws are not overridden by the 2018 Law Book .. so I am asking . If publishing a new Law Book doesn't do the trick then how can they ever be changed ,

Again PLEASE LOOK UP THE WORD CONTEXT. We have bee ntold that there are no changers to law in the re-write. Therefore in CONTEXT we have to read that any apparent changes are errors in the wording. Wheew we find such apparent errors the default position (IN CONTEXT) is to apply the law as we did up until the end of December.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

I think it is time to leave you to your "fun" and bow out of this discussion. I have a life to get on with.

 

[crossref]

I am so intrigued by this idea that we don't accept what's written plainly in the Law Book until we also receive an email from the Society confirming it !

What if the change was made by mistake ? Does it make any difference ?

Can the Society actually tell you to ignore the Law Book ? What authority do they have to do that?

Would they mark it as a Law Error if you do ?

 

[didds]

I'd expect a new referee to have undergone training and development with regard to laws an interpretation.So, or new referee should be better prepared that an old codger who can't be bothered to prepare.

Club refs? Not members of a society? Done basic ELRA - hopefully this will have explained the differences and nuances etc...

didds

 

[crossref]

I'd expect a new referee to have undergone training and development with regard to laws an interpretation.So, or new referee should be better prepared that an old codger who can't be bothered to prepare.

Any referee , new or old, should be able to learn and referee to the 2018 Law Book , on its own, without being told that he has made a Law Error because the old 2017 Law Book takes precedence

 

[DocY]

How long will you continue to regard the 2017 Law Book as primary ? Will it overide the 2019 and 2020 Law Books ? Can the Laws ever be changed again ?

I agree with crossref on this. I've never come across another situation where an updated document has been published yet the older version takes precedence.

Simply saying "there are no changes" doesn't help. No changes based on whose interpretations? Different unions (and even societies) can have different interpretations for certain events (e.g. the South African extended 22m line). The new book clarifies it, but to some people, it's a change.

We get many pieces of guidance from societies and assessors throughout the season, none of which (as far as I know) goes back to World Rugby, so they simply can't say that there are no changes, since they don't know what they were changing from.

 

[ChuckieB]

The Kick initiates the period of open play. That starts AFTER the kick. The kick is not in open play.

Not well written but simple enough.

and so longer the exception that they were previously.

Yes, quite simple but....... changed.

I am sure that, in the absence of reasoning as to why the exception was so, we would all see it simpler if the catcher gets the benefit in all situations of a scrum being called after catcher held for the reasons given.