3 Red cards in 2 minutes.

[L'irlandais]

Hello,
This on-line clip isn't a great advert for the Pro-2 game :
This referee red carded a player from each team, 1 for starting off the brawl with a punch, the other for retaliation.
Although play restarted with a Free-kick, this led to going to a scrum moments after ; sparked things off again & leading to a third Red Card.

1. Is it sufficient to send off only the player who started the 2nd brawl?
I mean, many of those left on the field of play had thrown and received punches.

2. Was the referee right to have played until the final whistle?
The incidents happened at 8 minutes from the end of play.

3. Or to put that another way, would it have been reasonable (at grassroots level) to end the match 8 minutes before time because of the powderkeg atmosphere?
(I don't think I'd have been comfortable about carrying on after the second brawl.)

 

[Mike Whittaker]

Perhaps in retrospect he should have sent both teams off and let the powers that be do whatever they want.
Both clubs were a disgrace to the game and such mass brawling should not be tolerated...

... unless you are a British Lion and the '99' is called!!

 

[paul mc]

L'irlandais....you are right about it not being a good advert for Pro-2
I'd say the Citing Officer is going to be sitting up all night.

 

[TheBFG]

I did see that yesterday, and thought :wow: pick the bones out of that lot!

could have been a few more cards without doubt.

As for blowing early :chin: didn't see if he did but after that first brawl i'd have been have a very strong word with capts and making it clear that it would not be tolerated :nono: and i'd have no issue with sending more off. I would expect them to get control of their teams and put the monkey very much on their back for ensuring we got to the end of the match!!!!!!

 

[macleod33]

Had a friend as 4th ref at that match. There had already beena couple of problems before the match. Just a reminder : the winner is promoted to TOP14, so a huge pressure on both clubs. La Rochelle had already lost the same match last year.
Back to the various actions. 10 minutes left, La Rochelle didin't seem capable to win the game, a lot of frustration built up during the game...... Obviously no excuse. Absolutely disgraceful.
Todays Midol is talking about a possible premeditated action. A La Rochelle player (Jordan Seneca - sent off) had actually tweeted BEFORE the game : "I may come in for the fight"... I think the objectif was that if they realised the match was lost, they had to make sure that a maximum of Pau players wouldn't be able to play the final, next week.
PS : in PRO D2, there is no citing officer, just the old-fashioned refs' report. But the clubs can cite players they reckon that there behaviour should be examined.

 

[Taff]

.... could have been a few more cards without doubt.

"A Few"?

I know we can abandon a game at any time, but especially with under 10 minutes left on the clock, I would have knocked it on the head.

 

[L'irlandais]

Hi,
I agree with the notion that La Rochelle had already called it a day on trying to win that match. One day a XV ref somewhere (perhaps here in Mulhouse) is going to red card both teams (for such disgraceful displays of violence) to the point where they are both down to 11-a-side. At which point I will take a soccer ball out of my kit bag and say "Well gents I think this ball is best suited to your abilities."* and leave the field of play.
Had the Pro D2 referee done so on camera it'd have be one for the annals.

*(Needless to say, I won't go and say it in French, as that might be bordering on suicidal.
:shrug: Call me a coward if you like.)

Edited by Robert Burns, your term was not appropriate.

 

[4eyesbetter]

I think perhaps you may wish to rethink the exact term of abuse that you apply to them.

 

[Mike Whittaker]

Once stopped a game 10min early. Midlands derby match at what would now be around L6 standard. Players wouldn't stop mass engagements on repeated occasions. In retrospect felt I should have issued a few reds earlier and players, now chatting merrily in the bar, agreed. They had enjoyed the game!

Assessor just didn't know what to do or say - had I sent them all off?? No, I had just blown early. Hadn't driven 200mile round trip to judge a wrestling contest. Of course long before days of leagues so no repercussions.

Seriously think refs have to be stronger and refuse to accept such play - and be assured that this will not affect their career.

 

[FlipFlop]

Seriously think refs have to be stronger and refuse to accept such play - and be assured that this will not affect their career.

I almost agree. But it is likely that it will affect their careers, as the question is why didn't they sort teh problem out? In your case you admit you should have dealt with it earlier. So this is your contributing factor to the early finish.

Refs should be judged on what they did, how they tried to prevent. If they did everything, and still it happened, did they make the right call to end it early? If so, it is one in the cap, and up for promotion, if they messed it all up, then perhaps de-motion. And in teh middle - well, learn from it, and don't let it happen again!

 

[Mike Whittaker]

Not in disagreement with you FlipFlop with "Refs should be judged on what they did, how they tried to prevent it".

But in the end, I think that at the top (not like my game!!) a ref who stops a game will be remembered and labelled because of that one decision regadless of everything that went on before. The top refs just will not do it!

Some of us can remember a brilliant Irish referee who had the temerity to (justifiably) send off one Colin Meads!
At the very top of his career it was only the second time he had ever sent a player off. Didn't do him much good...

 

[Dixie]

But in the end, I think that at the top (not like my game!!) a ref who stops a game will be remembered and labelled because of that one decision regadless of everything that went on before. The top refs just will not do it!

Same as refereeing the scrum properly - it would be detrimental to their career. What a damning thought that is!

 

[Davet]

Perhaps we should regain control of the asylum from the lunatics?

 

[Mike Whittaker]

Perhaps we should regain control of the asylum from the lunatics?

What? Get rid of all the refs? Leave it to the players!

Saw a L12 game once where they played on after ref left field. Played uncontested scrums (sort of) and had no problems.

 

[Davet]

Mike - why not? Let the Captains negotiate the offences, with an umpire there for when they can't agree.

After all, the players are all gentlemen - and honourable, Just like MPs.

Though it may have been tried before.


No - the lunatics I refer to are the collective blazers at the iRB who spend their lives thinking up new idiocies to trouble the game.

 

[Mike Whittaker]

Guessed (feared) that you might have been talking about the IRB Davet.
(Is iRB an Apple approved abbreviation?? seems to be used a lot on ads)

Thank goodness we have a World Cup every 4 years to slow down the rate of adding complexity to the confusion.

 

[Davet]

their logo uses the form iRB, hence my usage respects theirs.

 

[Taff]

.... But in the end, I think that at the top (not like my game!!) a ref who stops a game will be remembered and labelled because of that one decision regadless of everything that went on before. The top refs just will not do it!

Literally within weeks of me getting my Level 1 license there was a local social curry night. While mingling, a couple of Level 3 refs were discussing a pretty ferocious local derby. When told that the ref had abandoned the game, the other ref just piped up "Oh he's one of those is he." I didn't find out what "one of those" actually was, but from the tone of the conversation abandoning a game was seen as a sign of weakness.

 

[SimonSmith]

I think perhaps you may wish to rethink the exact term of abuse that you apply to them.

Seconded. Please amend before I have to mod it

 

[Browner]

a couple of Level 3 refs were discussing a pretty ferocious local derby. When told that the ref had abandoned the game, the other ref just piped up "Oh he's one of those is he." I didn't find out what "one of those" actually was, but from the tone of the conversation abandoning a game was seen as a sign of weakness.

IMO not making a stand when the players have lost respect for your authority, is greater weakness. Letting a match continue into repeated mass brawling is not only daft, but the player who gets a sucker punch & needs facial reconstruction won't thank you either. The best referees don't abdicate responsibility they TAKE responsibility.

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?7126-Referee-Walks-off-Field

IMO George Crawford [a man of integrity] , my mate was central to the 'action' he spent a significant amount of the match scrapping with the 'x' welsh hooker, & he said George was right to walk cos none of the players were interested in listening to him. Interestingly he told me that the next home match Clive Norling was the appointed & his pre-match briefing included kicking the dressing room door open & bellowing "I'm in charge so no taking F....liberties, right" [or something similar!]

It remains a shame that Geroge wasn't backed, irrespective.

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