[6N] Sco v Fra: Player on ground

belladonna

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Around 41m, blue 13 falls to ground after a collision, the ball lands near him and - still flat on his back - he pops up a pass to a team mate. Did anyone else spot this or am I seeing things?
 

crossref


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Around 41m, blue 13 falls to ground after a collision, the ball lands near him and - still flat on his back - he pops up a pass to a team mate. Did anyone else spot this or am I seeing things?

I noticed :)
 

Zebra1922


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You're not seeing things. Happened more than once in the game. Referee appeared to have no problem with this, personally I would have given a penalty.
 

belladonna

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Thanks Crossref & Zebra. Good to know I'm not seeing things, and not going crazy ?
Strikes me that given this was a top-level team of officials, rugby must be a damn difficult game to referee ?
 

timmad

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  • [FONT=fs_blakeregular]
    [FONT=fs_blakeregular]13 Players on the ground in open play[/FONT]
    [/FONT]
  • [FONT=fs_blakeregular]
    [FONT=fs_blakeregular][/FONT]
    The game is played only by players who are on their feet.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=fs_blakeregular][/FONT]
    A player on the ground without the ball is out of the game and must:
    • Allow opponents who are not on the ground to play or gain possession of the ball.
    • Not play the ball.
    • Not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.Sanction: Penalty.

      For a while I used to emphasise this in my PMB - no exceptions.
 

Balones

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Around 41m, blue 13 falls to ground after a collision, the ball lands near him and - still flat on his back - he pops up a pass to a team mate. Did anyone else spot this or am I seeing things?

I noticed also and was surprised it was ignored. I thought I heard somebody mention it to the ref but he said something about playing through. Perhaps I misheard because the commentators were talking.

Another thing not blown - Scottish No8 released bind to change position at back of scrum to control and then pick up the ball. A couple of years ago this was being blown up but in the six nations ig has been ignored. Like many I feel frustrated by inconsistencies at the top level which leads to issues lower down.
 

irishref


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It's funny. I have blown up for similar actions over the years that I've reffed and if there's been a question, my reply along the lines of "you're on the ground thus out of the game" has never been queried by player or captain.
 

crossref


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It's funny. I have blown up for similar actions over the years that I've reffed and if there's been a question, my reply along the lines of "you're on the ground thus out of the game" has never been queried by player or captain.

Until the rewrite there was a current of thought that a player on the ground had the same rights as a player who went to ground (to pass it of get up with it)

The rewrite removed ambiguity around this, and the Laws are now clear that when the ball comes near to a player on the ground, he cannot play it.
 

Jz558


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On a similar thread there were several occasions (I stopped counting) where players in the ruck and on the ground were grabbing the feet/ankles of defenders alongside the ruck to prevent them from being able to participate once the ball emerged. I know holding players in has always been an issue but I don't remember anything so blatant as this before.
 

didds

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Like many I feel frustrated by inconsistencies at the top level which leads to issues lower down.

and that is why aside from general debating points in wider contexts etc there isnt much use over analsysing calls at leite levels. They are playing to a different variation of pre agreed laws on the whole.

didds
 

crossref


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and that is why aside from general debating points in wider contexts etc there isnt much use over analsysing calls at leite levels. They are playing to a different variation of pre agreed laws on the whole.

didds

Which is also why we should reorganize the forum (my posts passim)
 

belladonna

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On a similar thread there were several occasions (I stopped counting) where players in the ruck and on the ground were grabbing the feet/ankles of defenders alongside the ruck to prevent them from being able to participate once the ball emerged. I know holding players in has always been an issue but I don't remember anything so blatant as this before.

Yes, I've noticed that too in this 6N... seems wrong/odd. On the ground is out of the game, surely?
 

Zebra1922


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On a similar thread there were several occasions (I stopped counting) where players in the ruck and on the ground were grabbing the feet/ankles of defenders alongside the ruck to prevent them from being able to participate once the ball emerged. I know holding players in has always been an issue but I don't remember anything so blatant as this before.

Luckily this seems to be an elite rugby problem and has not (yet) drifted down to the level I referee at.

only a matter of time though I suppose.

tackled players are actively coached to roll on the ground to prevent players contesting for the ball. I gave several penalties for this at the weekend.
 

didds

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tackled players are actively coached to roll on the ground to prevent players contesting for the ball. I gave several penalties for this at the weekend.

Good for you. Pisses me off.

didds
 

crossref


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Good for you. Pisses me off.

didds

I sometimes penalise that , players think I am mad !
If possible I will warn them the first time and then PK when it happens again
 

Arabcheif

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I've never reffed in a match (I will concede, I've not reffed many matches), where someone has rolled numerous times (twice or more). The ones who have, have rolled to get the ball on their own side. I'd allow that. But not multiple rolls.
 

crossref


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For me they can roll back toward their own team not the other way
 

didds

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that's souds reasonable to me CR. Though TBH its still smacks of poor contact techniaues/excellent tackling technaiue, and permittig a roll even towards their own goal line to present the ball on their side, means theyt are not acting "immediately" wrt the ball and so allows them to take contact poorly, or in fact fails to reward good defensive technique.

didds
 

Rich_NL

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It's still preventing a jackalling attempt. If there's a contest, I'll penalise it as playing on the ground (although agreed - generally one warning first, and that's enough).
 

Arabcheif

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I did my Lv 1 UKCC cert in the summer. The coaches were coaching that you could move with the ball to pivot on your stomach to present the ball back. Is this permitted, if so I see no difference in turning so your facing your support. Surely BOTH of these are preventing competition?
 
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