[Law] A New Myth!!!!!!!

[didds]

The u18 scrum laws, as such, make it difficult to reward the dominating scrum. .

I might suggest the U18 laws are designed generally speking to not reward dominant scrummaging, and safe scrummaging is the focus.

That said safe scrummaging isn't penalised in the manner discussed when it results in securing the ball.

didds

 

[Pinky]

Dickie, that is current U19 law, and there was a change to the full scrum laws a few years ago to make it same team as originally threw in. Of course all this presumes the wheel is not intentional, when it is a PK.

 

[TheBFG]

Pretty sure I've not seen this one come up.

Saturday, part way through the game and the weather is horrible wind rain the works! I notice it's got very dark, so i ask the home captain if the floodlights can be turned on? He says yes and calls to someone on the touchline.

From the home pack player says, " you can't turn the lights on part way through the game, they have to be on from the start"!

:wow: :chin:

 

[crossref]

This is competition regs rather than a Law

I would say at grassroots if both captains agree happy days
If they disagree they stay off. If it's too dark to play you abandon the game .

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Dickie, that is current U19 law, and there was a change to the full scrum laws a few years ago to make it same team as originally threw in. Of course all this presumes the wheel is not intentional, when it is a PK.

It is not illegal to intentionally wheel a scrum at "full laws".

 

[Marc Wakeham]

This is competition regs rather than a Law

I would say at grassroots if both captains agree happy days
If they disagree they stay off. If it's too dark to play you abandon the game .

I'd be very surprised to see that in competition regulations

 

[didds]

It is not illegal to intentionally wheel a scrum at "full laws".

correct.

I noted in the Wales v Scotland game scotland IIRC were PKd for "wheeling the scrum" but no further explananation was made as to what exactly was PKd. As Marc says - wheeling is in itself not illegal at full senior level. Rather the actions that bring about the wheel may be.

didds

 

[crossref]

I'd be very surprised to see that in competition regulations

I am pretty sure it's in the regs for Premiership , and also in World Rugby regs for internationals

On the other hand I don't recall it mentioned in the regs for the Middlesex Merit Tables

 

[SimonSmith]

Pretty sure I've not seen this one come up.

Saturday, part way through the game and the weather is horrible wind rain the works! I notice it's got very dark, so i ask the home captain if the floodlights can be turned on? He says yes and calls to someone on the touchline.

From the home pack player says, " you can't turn the lights on part way through the game, they have to be on from the start"!

:wow: :chin:

"Skip, I can't see who said that. Makes me think it's too dark to continue"

 

[Marc Wakeham]

I am pretty sure it's in the regs for Premiership , and also in World Rugby regs for internationals

On the other hand I don't recall it mentioned in the regs for the Middlesex Merit Tables

A reference would be handy.

 

[crossref]

A reference would be handy.

Challenge accepted!

Here's an example from the Championship Regs
Regulation 5.8
[LAWS].Clubs that use floodlights for a Match are required to have them turned on at the start of the Match. [/LAWS]

https://www.englandrugby.com/governance/regulations/#

epper:

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Thnks for that. What an odd regulation. Effectively saying Tur them on and waste power etc when they are not needed or else. Anybody know the "logic" behind this?

 

[crossref]

It woukd be an unfair advantage to the home team if they could unilaterally to keep the lights off, or turn them on during the game

 

[Balones]

It is actually to do with the fact that the lights take several minutes (as much as 20) to get to full power and while they are coming on tend to come on at different rates. For this reason you get areas of deep shadow and areas of bright light. Also they can flicker on suddenly and cause a glare. All of which can have some safety implications.

The above was the reason when floodlights started to become more common place quite a few years ago and the powering up has improved but it all depends on the age of the system etc so the regulations have stayed in place.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

It woukd be an unfair advantage to the home team if they could unilaterally to keep the lights off, or turn them on during the game

I can't see how it would be an advantage to either side. Surely both sides and the referee need to see the ball etc.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

It is actually to do with the fact that the lights take several minutes (as much as 20) to get to full power and while they are coming on tend to come on at different rates. For this reason you get areas of deep shadow and areas of bright light. Also they can flicker on suddenly and cause a glare. All of which can have some safety implications.

The above was the reason when floodlights started to become more common place quite a few years ago and the powering up has improved but it all depends on the age of the system etc so the regulations have stayed in place.

I can't see that that is very relevant today. The quality of lights, even down in the sticks is very good, here in Wales at least. If our clubs can do it I can't see why English clubs should have an issue. A logical time to switch them on would be as the players go off for half time. That gives plenty of time for lights to "settle".

 

[crossref]

In reality if both captains want the lights turned on, then the lights will go on, right ? Happy days

These regs bite only when/if the captains disagree.
Which will surely be very rare indeed

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Trouble with that crossref is during the game ref asks captains who both say "turn them on please". Then, after Blue win 15-13, Red coach says "That's against the regulations!". Club then launches an official complaint!

 

[Pinky]

I am sure that part of the issue is to cover when the lights should come on - in my memory I recall times the lights could not be put on more than them failing during the game (although that is not unknown)

 

[crossref]

Sure, but it's a remote chance and at grassroots level I am sure that the organiser would be pragmatic

For the MMT every decision I hear about seems eminently pragmatic