[Law] Advantage queries

[HappyScrummie]

Hello all! I've just started refereeing and I had two queries about advantage I wondered if you could help with.


1) Law 8.3e states the following:

After the ball has been made dead. Advantage cannot be played after the ball has been made dead.



So does this mean advantage finishes if the team appears to deliberately put the ball into touch (e.g. kick up field)? And what if they did it accidentally (e.g. fling a long pass to the winger but it goes out instead)? Even if you're playing penalty advantage for an infringement, it becomes a lineout for the opposite team?


2) Law 8.5b states that:

If advantage is being played following an infringement by one team and then the other team commit an infringement, the referee blows the whistle and applies the sanctions associated with the first infringement. If either infringement is for foul play, the referee applies the appropriate sanction for that offence. The referee may also temporarily suspend, or order off, the offending player.


I wondered what you do if both infringements are of equal weight, e.g both penalty offences (such as offside) or both foul play offences (e.g. dangerous tackle)? Who gets the penalty?


Thank you very much!

 

[crossref]

Hi happyscrummie

for (1) on the board we haven't always agreed what that text means, exactly, but here goes.

'playing advantage' is when an offence has been committed and you are playing advantage

when the ball goes dead you can no longer play advantage, you have to call it : so it's either 'no advantage gained' back to the original offence, OR it's 'advantage over', and award the the lineout, or try or whatever.

for (2)

give them the PK in the most advantageous place.

 

[leaguerefaus]

HappyScrummie, with your second query, I believe if both offences are technical offences, the team which first offended is penalised. If both offences are foul play, the team which last offended is penalised. If one offence is technical and one is foul play, the foul play is penalised.

 

[thepercy]

1. It depends on if it is PK Adv or Scrum Adv. PK Adv requires territorial and tactical Adv, so a kick to touch or down field (that's not regathered by the kicking team) comes back to the PK. Scrum Adv can be territorial or tactical, so a kick into touch or upfield with a territorial gain is Adv over, the Adv is gained before the ball becomes dead. Also, a kick, even without a territorial gain can be Adv over if the kick was not under pressure, as the team has freely chose to kick and tactical Adv gained.

2. Equal PKs, go back to the first offense, unless foul play, and then you need to decide which is more egregious.

 

[Dickie E]

[LAWS]Advantage cannot be played after the ball has been made dead[/LAWS]

What this means is that once the ball becomes dead play can't continue (for example, once the ball is in touch a player can't pick it up and run with it). A restart of some kind must take place.

The scenarios you describe are examples of playing advantage before the ball becomes dead.

 

[Camquin]

Blue player with ball pus foot into touch and then gets tackled, red picks up loose ball and runs in what they think is a try.
Ref has to go back for touch.

Blue player knocks on, red picks up but is bundled into touch immediately. No advantage gained, go back for the knock on.
Blue player knocks on, red picks up makes 20 metres and is bundled into touch. Advantage gained, throw in blue.

 

[Taff]

What this means is that once the ball becomes dead play can't continue (for example, once the ball is in touch a player can't pick it up and run with it). A restart of some kind must take place. The scenarios you describe are examples of playing advantage before the ball becomes dead.

Exactly. So when the ball goes dead, we need to decide whether there was an advantage or not.

 

[DocY]

2. Equal PKs, go back to the first offense, unless foul play, and then you need to decide which is more egregious.

This is what I go by - the penalty is against the worst foul play, though I did have an assessor once tell me that if a player retaliates that's where the penalty should go (quite an amusing situation where a stand off punched a lock, who retaliated by flicking him on the forehead - I gave the penalty against 10, but he actually seemed in more pain!)

 

[Nigib]

This is what I go by - the penalty is against the worst foul play, though I did have an assessor once tell me that if a player retaliates that's where the penalty should go (quite an amusing situation where a stand off punched a lock, who retaliated by flicking him on the forehead - I gave the penalty against 10, but he actually seemed in more pain!)

And did you RC the stand off at the same time? I understand the reversal of the PK for retaliation - can seem bizarre.

 

[DocY]

And did you RC the stand off at the same time? I understand the reversal of the PK for retaliation - can seem bizarre.

Only a yellow - it was a pretty pathetic punch with only a few minutes to go in a game that was being played in good spirits. Yes, yes, I know it should have been a red, but it didn't feel right.

 

[HappyScrummie]

Thanks very much all - definitely cleared both points up!

 

[didds]

it didn't feel right... and I sympathise.

Next week someone will land a feeble punch in the first 5 minutes and get RC'd.

Guess what the skipper will say?

didds