An incident of Rascism in rugby

[Phil E]

not if the incident gets cited and upheld, showing that the team was right and the referee was wrong.

..............showing that they viewed it differently to how the referee did :nono:

 

[Na Madrai]

I am reminded of a colt's match I refereed some seasons back. The match was played between a 'Junior' club, yellow, and a 'Senior' club, blue. Blue were physically larger and in the prematch warm up, clearly more skilful. If asked before KO, I would have said that I would be blowing for the end long before time was up on the basis of the fifty point differential!!! What a shock I received.

From the KO, yellow chased and tackled like demons. Every tackle was around the thighs and driving the ball carrier backwards and to ground, form a ruck and then drive blue off. If they gained possession outside of Blue's 22, they would simply kick it into the centre of the 22 and wait for blue to try to run it out. The tactics were brutal, hard but fair. From memory, I cannot recall giving a penalty against yellow other than for a couple of offsides. However, as blue became more and more frustrated, so the penalty count against them grew and, as the match was played almost entirely in their 22, so yellow kicked the penalties so that at half-time, yellow were twenty points or so up.

Twenty minutes into the match, I could hear the blue coaches shouting at me for not penalising dangerous tackles and, eventually, one of them came onto the pitch and stated that this is not how rugby should be played. Every tackle was dangerous, I was letting yellow get away with high and late tackles and I had better do something about it!!!!!!

Having quietly admonished him for entering the pitch without my consent and warning him that if he were to do so again, I would send him back to the distant clubhouse, the match continued.

At half-time, this coach called his team together and without notifying anyone, marched them off, had them change and drove them off.

This was a North Midlands Cup match. There were several hundred people watching including a group of trainee referees and their three trainors. In the clubhouse afterwards, I could find no-one who had any idea as to why this team had been taken off. There were no dangerous tackles, no high tackles, no late tackles, punches, kicks, stamps. It was simply a team playing a very hard tackling, no prisoners taken form of rugby. Not allowing the opposition any time to settle on the ball or develop their playing style and as a result, winning the match.

When approached by the NM for their side of the story, the response was the referee had totally lost control of the match and he had removed his team for safety reasons. Since this view was totally at odds with the view of three senior and very experienced referees on the touchline, the home team coach and several spectators, his club's junior sides were banned from entering all NM competitions for two seasons.

To this day, I am firmly of the opinion that he took his team off because they were being totally hammered by a 'junior' club and he simply could not cope with this 'disgrace'.

NM

 

[Davet]

.............showing that they viewed it differently to how the referee did :nono:

Phil - refs are quite capable of being wrong.

 

[Davet]

NM - understood and appreciated.

But in a hypothetical instance, if the refs on the touchline were in agreement with the coaches assessment, and that our hypothetical ref was having a very bad day at the office - what should be done?

 

[OB..]

NM - understood and appreciated.

But in a hypothetical instance, if the refs on the touchline were in agreement with the coaches assessment, and that our hypothetical ref was having a very bad day at the office - what should be done?

It depends on the level. Here is a real instance from many years back (that I have quoted before).

Our 3rd XV turned up to an away game with 15 players (in itself a minor miracle). The opposition also had just 15, and the committee man who had volunteered to referee did not turn up. The opposition captain said he supposed he would have to do it. Nothing unusual so far.

When we got to the pitch there was a spectator, who apparently was there quite regularly, so when the "referee" suggested asking him if he could ref, we said yes, and so did the erstwhile spectator. Bad error.

Some examples of his decisions: PK for the ball not going 10m at a 22 drop out; team signals a kick at goal, but then taps and runs - try awarded; player standing at back of opposition ruck tackles scrum half - no reaction.

By half time this was obviously silly so we agreed with the opposition we would referee the game ourselves, asking him to blow he whistle when needed. It worked surprisingly well, just like 100 years earlier.

 

[crossref]

It depends on the level. Here is a real instance from many years back (that I have quoted before).

Our 3rd XV turned up to an away game with 15 players (in itself a minor miracle). The opposition also had just 15, and the committee man who had volunteered to referee did not turn up. The opposition captain said he supposed he would have to do it. Nothing unusual so far.

When we got to the pitch there was a spectator, who apparently was there quite regularly, so when the "referee" suggested asking him if he could ref, we said yes, and so did the erstwhile spectator. Bad error.

Some examples of his decisions: PK for the ball not going 10m at a 22 drop out; team signals a kick at goal, but then taps and runs - try awarded; player standing at back of opposition ruck tackles scrum half - no reaction.

By half time this was obviously silly so we agreed with the opposition we would referee the game ourselves, asking him to blow he whistle when needed. It worked surprisingly well, just like 100 years earlier.

and that, my friends, is the true story of how OB first met Chopper.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I had an incident when I first started 10 years ago in an U14 game.
Bit of a scuffle between 2 players after a tackle but one uttered the words F off you B**** T***.
I blew loudly got teams apart and got the offender to one side. The scuffle was 50/50 and would have been no more than a restart.
I told the lad I want you to apologise for that commet to the other Lad.
He refused so I brought the coach on told him what was said and ordered him off.
Coach agreed with me and it went no further. I also spoke to the dad of the offended Lad after the game and he was happy with the way I handled it.
Don't know if I would do that now...

 

[crossref]

I had an incident when I first started 10 years ago in an U14 game.
Bit of a scuffle between 2 players after a tackle but one uttered the words F off you B**** T***.
I blew loudly got teams apart and got the offender to one side. The scuffle was 50/50 and would have been no more than a restart.
I told the lad I want you to apologise for that commet to the other Lad.
He refused so I brought the coach on told him what was said and ordered him off.
Coach agreed with me and it went no further. I also spoke to the dad of the offended Lad after the game and he was happy with the way I handled it.
Don't know if I would do that now...

- you wouldn't send him off, or you wouldn't give him a chance to escape a RC by apologising?

 

[Davet]

and that, my friends, is the true story of how OB first met Chopper.

And if Chopper is indeed reading posts then I'm sure this comment will cause him to smile too.

 

[Phil E]

Phil - refs are quite capable of being wrong.

I don't dispute that.

But my point was, just because an incident gets cited, does NOT necessarily mean the referee was wrong.
Hindsite is a wonderful thing :chin:

 

[Davet]

Phil E

Accepted.

But I am trying to explore a situation where perhaps a ref is well out of his depth - I would hope it would not happen in a senior society appointed game - but it could happen in a junior age grade game where the ref is a coach / parent / someone who owns a whistle.

 

[Na Madrai]

If the situation should arise whereby both coaches are of the opinion that a referee was well out of their depth and safety issues were arising then I would like to think that they would agree to replace the referee with one of themselves!!!!

Returning a little on topic, I have just remembered my own incident of being racist as a referee. I was actually refereeing at one of my old clubs, again at colts' level. There had been a bit of a fracas and I had spoken to the two captains. I then turned to the home team captain and requested him to call his number 14 to us. He asked me which one as apparently there were two on the pitch and without thinking, my response was 'the young coloured lad'. No-one said anything about at the time but in the clubhouse, the home team coach pointed out that the comment could well have been construed as being racist and even sexist!

Although probably said tongue in cheek, it certainly made me think!

NM

 

[crossref]

Phil E

Accepted.

But I am trying to explore a situation where perhaps a ref is well out of his depth - I would hope it would not happen in a senior society appointed game - but it could happen in a junior age grade game where the ref is a coach / parent / someone who owns a whistle.

I have seen our head coach take his team off in a scenario like this.
However it was a friendly not a league game, so end of the story. I am not sure what would happen in a league game.
Of course in a League game you don't get a random "coach / parent / someone who owns a whistle" the club must provide a suitably qualified ref from outside the age group.

The refs we use for league games are experienced and capable, some of course are also Society members on saturday acting as club-refs on a sunday morning.

 

[Phil E]

But I am trying to explore a situation where perhaps a ref is well out of his depth - I would hope it would not happen in a senior society appointed game - but it could happen in a junior age grade game where the ref is a coach / parent / someone who owns a whistle.

That's not what you have been asking (until now). All your previous posts talked about deducting league points, RWC matches, etc.

This is the first instance of you mentioning a junior age grade game.

You seem to have moved the goalposts?

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

- you wouldn't send him off, or you wouldn't give him a chance to escape a RC by apologising?

I was giving the offender a chance to apolgise directly for his comment to the lad he called a name to.
He wouldn't, so I brought the coach on, explained what happenned and told him I was sending the player off.
It was a friendly fixture.

 

[Dickie E]

B**** T***.

I'm guessing B**** is Black. But what is T***?

 

[dave_clark]

i'd guess twat.

 

[Dickie E]

i'd guess twat.

Of courth. I uthed to have a horth that could twat