An incident of Rascism in rugby

[Jenko]

I just saw this article and it sounds like an absolute nightmare!!

http://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/story/159184.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

Telford Hornets centre Martin Rudd has apologised for his conduct which led to him being banned for 18 weeks after being found guilty of racially abusing an opponent.

The centre said he immediately regretted the comment, which was made "in the heat of the moment" in a Midlands Four West North match against Market Drayton on January 28. Market Drayton subsequently left the field, forcing the referee to abandon the match. Because they refused to play on, Market Drayton were last night docked 20 league points after being found guilty of misconduct.

How did it get to a point where a whole team refuses to continue? Seems a complete mess!

 

[Phil E]

Re: Rascism in rugby

How did it get to a point where a whole team refuses to continue?

Hard to know without more detail.

If the ref didn't hear the abuse, he wouldn't be able to do anything about it. But if half the team heard it, they might have refused to play as a result?

I can't imagine the ref would have heard it and not done anything about it.

Midlands 4 would be Level 9

 

[Davet]

Re: Rascism in rugby

Would they have to play-on if half the team witnessed a bad gouging that the ref didn't see?

Would that also have cost them league points? I suspect so - and rightly.

If the ref had seen the gouge and sent the player off would that have prevented a mass walk off?

I suspect so.

Did the ref send the abusive player off? Did the ref hear the abuse?

I'm not sure that thread title of "Racism in Rugby" is pertinent. The incident shows up a racist comment from, presumably, an individual who has some race concious elements in his character and who has allowed frustration to get the better of him - rather than demonstrating that rugby is itslef in some way institutionally racist.

And what would be the response of players and authorities be to non-racial abuse - "F off you ginger cnut".

 

[crossref]

Re: Rascism in rugby

or perhaps he heard it, but couldn't tell who it was.

verbnal abuse is different from physical assault where if you didn't see it you can't be 100% certain there was even an offence (the bruise/mark could have come from anywhere) If you heard somethnig you KNOW there was an offence but don't know who. It's like failing to get a number.

in kids rugby if I heard something but didn't know who... I don't know - I might invite the coach and/or the captain (depending on age) to take the player off (I bet they would know who it was)

We've had two incidents of abuse against a player in our team in last two season. Both times (different games) the referee didn't hear it, but when made aware he delivered a stern lecture to the oppo team.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Re: Rascism in rugby

Would they have to play-on if half the team witnessed a bad gouging that the ref didn't see?

In the 1999 RWC Final, Wallaby captain John Eales made it clear to referee André Watson that he would lead his team from the pitch if he and his officials did not put a stop to their French opponents' eye-gouging tactics in the scrums rucks and mauls. In doing so, he was defending the safety of his team. Eales is a courageous man and a principled one. I have do doubt whatsoever that he would have carried through with that threat.

Its a pity our All Blacks captain didn't have the balls to tell Jim Fleming the same thing the week before.

 

[crossref]

What did Watson do to stop it ?

 

[Davet]

Re: Rascism in rugby

Ian - yes, I remember.

But if Nobody had taken his players off what sanction, if any, should have been applied by the RWC authorities?

 

[Pinky]

Re: Rascism in rugby

I had an unpleasant moment when I saw a boy swing for his opponent. As it was age grade, I asked for him to be subbed and explained to the coach why. As he went off he told me "but he called me a *****" (term of recial abuse) So, I did the stern lecture at the other team (it would be a red card in my book) (in the hearing of their coach/teacher) Afterwards I told the boy if that ever happened again he should immediately tell the referee as then the referee could listen out for anything untoward and if necessary deal with it.

 

[crossref]

Re: Rascism in rugby

his captain should tell the referee

 

[Pinky]

Re: Rascism in rugby

At age grade, youngsters don't really understand the concept of captain other than to make decisions such as heads or tails or options. A youngster may well be more able to tell an adult "he called me a *****" that he would a school mate, so whilst I agree in principle that all communication is through the captain, I would still encourage the boy to feel free to approach the ref and I would be disappointed by any ref who would not listen.

 

[Dickie E]

Re: Rascism in rugby

I'm not sure that thread title of "Racism in Rugby" is pertinent.

I agree. For Racism to occur a level of discrimination is required. Racial abuse is different.

 

[crossref]

Re: Rascism in rugby

At age grade, youngsters don't really understand the concept of captain other than to make decisions such as heads or tails or options. A youngster may well be more able to tell an adult "he called me a *****" that he would a school mate, so whilst I agree in principle that all communication is through the captain, I would still encourage the boy to feel free to approach the ref and I would be disappointed by any ref who would not listen.

that's true at young levels like U13 and I agree. I guess the crossover is about U15, U16

 

[Robert Burns]

I changed the thread title.

 

[Davet]

Anyone care to respond to my question about what sanction a team should face if they withdraw from a game for safety reasons?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Anyone care to respond to my question about what sanction a team should face if they withdraw from a game for safety reasons?

That might depend in the safety issue itself.

For example, a dangerous pitch (broken glass, deep puddles etc). If one team decided they would refuse to play, this would be different from what they might face if they were withdrawing based on unpenalised dangerous acts by their opponents.

 

[Davet]

And if on the basis of unpenalised foul play...

 

[crossref]

I changed the thread title.

but didn't correct the spelling mistake while you were there? :sad:

 

[Phil E]

And if on the basis of unpenalised foul play...

I would expect the powers that be to deduct points.

Whether it is foul play or not, is the referee's decision (rightly or wrongly), not the teams.

 

[crossref]

.

Whether it is foul play or not, is the referee's decision (rightly or wrongly), not the teams.

not if the incident gets cited and upheld, showing that the team was right and the referee was wrong.

 

[Davet]

I don't think such a walk off would be prompted by a single incident - if a team felt that the ref was missing/ignoring a number of dangerous incidents and in the interests of safety - which trumps both Law and Enjoyment - decided that they had to leave the pitch would it be fair to deduct league points.

It might be argued that if they had stayed on the pitch that the referee had, by failure to act, encouraged dangerous play - and that to they would risk a continuing escalation.

Should they then be facing a sanction for the refs failure.

Or do teams have to simply put up with the ref they given regardless?