any thoughts on this passage of play?

[Phil E]

but is (s)he actually PREVENTING access to the ball.
Ive spoken at length on multiple occassions about this. Holding onto the ball is not always about preventing the oppo from stealing it.

Id have more queries about how a tackled player on the ground is somehow moved forwards by his his/her team-mates

Law requires the player to release the ball once placed.
Its not always about preventing the opposition stealing the ball, but if they drag it with them they are holding it into the ruck, whereas otherwise it might have been left exposed. Effectively they are rucking over but not leaving the ball.

 

[didds]

I certainly wouldn't be awarding a try.
The only clearly illegal action in this scenario is the tackled player not releasing the ball therefore it wouldn't be an option to award the try.

so you ping every not releasing when the ruck is static presumably ?

thast fine if you do of course. But if yove just let multiple rucks go Ok with one hand on top of the ball to prevent some leaden footed oaf from kicking it into the tackled players teeth, its a bit of a gotcha to then pull it out of the bag surely?
Update : Phil has comvinced me otherwise regarding this particular moving tackled player situation.
Might it just be easier not to permit ruckers from holding onto players on the ground? isn't that preventing the tackled player form rolling away etc ?

 

[didds]

Ruck forms on or near the goal line....Ball loose on ground and gets moved into the ingoal through the dynamics of the rucking action. Ball is then grounded by attacking player. Try.

I cant help but think this was thought of as a sort of number 8 at a push over try idea though - in the days when ruckers stayed on their feet and drove the oppo backwards, and a read player may hold the ball in the ruck with his feet...

 

[didds]

Law requires the player to release the ball once placed.
Its not always about preventing the opposition stealing the ball, but if they drag it with them they are holding it into the ruck, whereas otherwise it might have been left exposed. Effectively they are rucking over but not leaving the ball.

thats a very well argued case Phil. So in fact yes - they may be moving the player but the ball should always remain in field unless controlled a la scrum #8 by a player on their feet maybe...

 

[Stu10]

@didds I think you've come to the same conclusion... I don't think a hand on top of the ball in a static ruck is the same as taking it with you are driven up the pitch. For a starters, holding a steadying hand on top of the ball in a static ruck is not really being in possession of the ball IMHO, whereas taking the ball with you up the pitch requires properly keeping hold of the ball (possession) while on the ground, or keeping one hand on top of the ball and rolling it forward, which is a knock on.

 

[Decorily]

so you ping every not releasing when the ruck is static presumably ?

I would hopefully have pinged every time that the offence was actually material.
In my opinion just leaving a hard on the ball to steady it or whatever is not necessarily material and is entirely different to holding a ball as you are pushed/pulled along the ground resulting in a 'try' being scored!!

 

[didds]

, or keeping one hand on top of the ball and rolling it forward, which is a knock on.

and a deliberate one at that!

 

[Mipper]

I certainly wouldn't be awarding a try.
The only clearly illegal action in this scenario is the tackled player not releasing the ball therefore it wouldn't be an option to award the try.

Gosh, whilst it is probably wrong by the letter of the law, I would never, have never pinged anybody for holding on unless it is preventing the oppo from stealing the ball.

or, I suppose, trying to move with the ball whilst on the ground.

What I tend to allow also is the tackled player to pass from the ground, as this to me, is positive play.

 

[Decorily]

Gosh, whilst it is probably wrong by the letter of the law, I would never, have never pinged anybody for holding on unless it is preventing the oppo from stealing the ball.

or, I suppose, trying to move with the ball whilst on the ground.

What I tend to allow also is the tackled player to pass from the ground, as this to me, is positive play.

My comment is in relation to post#54...

Tackled player holding on to ball and being driven over the goal line by his team mates and then grounding ingoal to score.

 

[tim White]

My comment is in relation to post#54...

Tackled player holding on to ball and being driven over the goal line by his team mates and then grounding ingoal to score.

Momentum driven over I can live with, secondary shove by his team mates arriving after the going to ground = PK for not releasing